The Revered 357 magnum and general pistol bullet ballistics

[Cerberus Group]

Was asked to join a panel on the Primary and Secondary podcast about a 357 magnum load we developed in conjunction with Darryl Bolke of Hardwired Tactical.

I got a message from host Matt Landfair asking to join the panel about half way through the podcast...at about the 58 minute mark.

With so much talk about hollow point expansion, penetration, over penetration etc., a lot of great info here on pistol ballistics in general as well.

Contrary to popular belief, you don't always need expansion...it's just the cherry on top if it happens...but not necessary.

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[bcp]

Expansion is optional. Penetration is mandatory.



Bruce

 

[bradsteen]

Expansion is optional. Penetration is mandatory.



Bruce

That's what she said.

 

[bradsteen]

Sophomoric humor aside, just listened to the whole thing through. Great info!

 

[Cerberus Group]

Ballistics seem to take on a life of its own depending on who's pushing it.

If its the manufacturer, then the old rule of marketing usually applies...sell it to the public in such a way as to make them think they can't live without it, and go in for the monetary kill.

For the user, we tend to be testers of the fact. is that which is being pushed actually true, or are there caveats.

Some specifics that aren't written about much is the differences that can be found in the human body that can affect bullet performance. Age, physical condition, medical issues, medications and the list goes on...then there's subtle differences in not only bone density, but skin and organ elasticity that also comes into play.

Thus one can shoot 10 different people, in the same place with the same firearm, same distance, angle etc., and get slightly 10 different bullet performance results.

I'd rather have the deep penetration, than the expansion...if you get both, celebrate it!

As I mentioned on the podcast, there's a sweet spot for JHPs and each JHP is engineered for a specific velocity range to perform properly. Too fast, they open up too quick and act like a parachute and don't get the penetration. Too slow, they act more like a FMJ yet also might lack penetration because of the slower velocity.

Overall, there's way too much emphasis on JHP performance because so many people are writing about it, and manufacturers are pushing it.

If you want a great snub load for a revolver...carry 148gr wadcutters. Want a great round for the 12 gauge for home defense, get some breaching rounds...turns everything to soup.

Try not to buy into the hype being marketed. We're coming full circle on ballistics as Chuck and Caleb mentioned...and it mostly does not include JHPs.

Yes, you can get good performance out of a load without subjecting both the gun and shooter to abuse.

Jim Cirillo had some great home made examples of bullets that truly worked at a very high percentage.

 

[Howard1955]

I haven't gotten into the study of ballistics, using chronographs and ballistic gel.

But a 180 grain hardcast 357 magnum shot out of a 5" barrel will drop a deer in its tracks. I imagine it would have the same result on a man.

 

[Oro]

I haven't gotten into the study of ballistics, using chronographs and ballistic gel.

But a 180 grain hardcast 357 magnum shot out of a 5" barrel will drop a deer in its tracks. I imagine it would have the same result on a man.

Right. And for the ever-sacred bear loads, a fast-driven hardcast is preferrable to an expanding bullet.

I got over my hang-up on hollow points a long time ago, even for 9mm and .45 acp.

 

[User 1234]

I use garlic bullets in case I encounter vampires.


In all seriousness, that is a worthwhile presentation. For me, improving my marksmanship is my first priority.

 

[Stomper]

Sophomoric humor aside, just listened to the whole thing through. Great info!

Sophomoric humor?!



Never heard of it.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Sophomoric humor?!



Never heard of it.

Never heard of it/she/her

 

[Stomper]

Never heard of it/she/her

Aw HELL no, we ain't rolling with plural pronouns… pick ONE!

 

[Cerberus Group]

Aw HELL no, we ain't rolling with plural pronouns… pick ONE!

 

[RedneckRampage]

Interesting to hear you guys talking about K and L frames falling apart after a lot of rounds, and someone mentioned shooting thousands through a Security Six and it's still going strong. I have always liked the "Six" series Ruger 357s and a 4" '76 Service Six is my go to 357.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Interesting to hear you guys talking about K and L frames falling apart after a lot of rounds, and someone mentioned shooting thousands through a Security Six and it's still going strong. I have always liked the "Six" series Ruger 357s and a 4" '76 Service Six is my go to 357.

For the approx the same size of frame, Ruger is way more tougher.

 

[oremike]

I've been shooting the same 4" GP-100 since the mid 1980's with never an issue. My pet load is a full house 180gr Hardcast TC pushed out of the barrel by a full case of W-296 powder.

 

[ron]

For the approx the same size of frame, Ruger is way more tougher.

The Ruger has to be dimensionally larger because it is investment casting. Not machine steel like the Smith

 

[Cerberus Group]

The Ruger has to be dimensionally larger because it is investment casting. Not machine steel like the Smith

I did say approx. Yes the frame and related parts are thicker, heavier etc.

 

[RedneckRampage]

The Ruger has to be dimensionally larger because it is investment casting. Not machine steel like the Smith

I did say approx. Yes the frame and related parts are thicker, heavier etc.

My 4" Service Six feels and carries smaller than the 4" 581 that I had before it.

 

[ron]

I like Ruger revolvers they are very strong. I own a couple. But I am a fan of Smith revolvers.
Smith and Wesson dominates revolver competions. Not uncommon for these Smith and Wesson
revolvers to require repair. But very rare for a Ruger to require repair.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I really wish Ruger did not stop production of the Security Six and Speed Six revolvers.
In any event...the .357 Magnum is an excellent and versatile cartridge.
Thanks for posting OP.
Andy