The Citadel in Idaho

[DukkButt]

I don't have much faith or trust in separatists.

What a man wants to do with a few of his friends is his thing to do, and if it makes his family safe, wonderful. When that man starts making compounds is when they venture into separatist territory.

If being in a gated community makes one a separatist then there are millions of those "evil" separatists all over the country just waiting for the right moment to strike and create their own glorious little kingdoms. Clearly the government wouldn't allow that many future despotic little empires to exist, so it mist be something other than the gated community part. Maybe the clue is in "a few friends". Do tell, what is the official dividing line between "a few friends" and a separatist movement? Has to be at least a dozen adults to even be able to keep a minimal 24 hour watch. What if there are 20 children? When they become adults do they have to leave or risk having the group automatically turn into evil separatists? If that's still within the allowable limit, how about when the kids want to marry? I mean no matter what the dividing line is at some point you will exceed it and have to kick someone out or turn into evil separatists. You have to take these sort of things into account when you are doing long term planning or you won't be ready to deal with it when it happens.

VJ

 

[davemata]

See, you're talking about posting a watch.
Separatists.
/thread

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I don't have much faith or trust in separatists.

What a man wants to do with a few of his friends is his thing to do, and if it makes his family safe, wonderful. When that man starts making compounds is when they venture into separatist territory.

Either is none of your business

 

[davemata]

Either is none of your business

Sedition is every citizen's business.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Sedition is every citizen's business.

Separatism is not sedition

 

[DukkButt]

See, you're talking about posting a watch.
Separatists.
/thread

Since the category is "Preparedness and Survival" and the point of this thread is a plan to survive SHTF, then if you are not planning on the need for a 24 hour watch when that happens you aren't planning on surviving, in which case you are in the wrong forum.

VJ

 

[davemata]

Separatism is not sedition

True, but it is the first step down a relatively short path the goes from separatism, to isolationism, to drug induced fantasies of being a sovereign nation, to a batfe barbecue.

 

[davemata]

Since the category is "Preparedness and Survival" and the point of this thread is a plan to survive SHTF, then if you are not planning on the need for a 24 hour watch when that happens you aren't planning on surviving, in which case you are in the wrong forum.

VJ

Oh I didn't realize I was in the Ruby Ridge recreation forum. Thanks.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

That kind of thinking has allowed government goons to murder a lot of people over the years

These people just want to be left alone and I feel the same.. planning very much to drop out at some point. We have already tuned out of the madhouse circus that is modern "society"

 

[davemata]

That kind of thinking has allowed government goons to murder a lot of people over the years

That's true. That's why an armed compound is a dicey proposition.

These people just want to be left alone and I feel the same.. planning very much to drop out at some point. We have already tuned out of the madhouse circus that is modern "society"

Can't blame you on that course.

 

[DukkButt]

Once you understand the tactics of thread hijacking/disruption it is actually quite interesting to watch. When a liberal/fed mole/troll wants to steer a thread like this away from the original topic, throwing out an accusation is a classic tactic. "Racist" has been the biggie for a long time but it has been over used and is wearing a little thin. "Separatist" is actually a really good one. It is plausible enough to be accepted as genuine but has enough of a negative connotation to pretty much guaranty a response. The thread then takes off on a discussion of the accusation instead of the original topic. Bingo! Mission accomplished.

I hadn't really planned on any extensive discussions here anyway. Just wanted to let people know about the project.

If you go over and follow the original discussions it is pretty interesting to see how the ideas developed. If concept interests you go over and check it out. If not, that's ok too. Free country and all that good stuff.

That's about it for me on this thread. Always interesting to see the reactions, though. Have fun folks and hammer away!

VJ

 

[Siglvr]

Don't sweat it Dukkbut, peoples imaginations go wild. I remember when Bo Gritz was setting up a similar community in Idaho (I think they have more productive land than you will have), there was a lot more flak. In fact, the "clear fields of fire" that the Almost Heaven folks designed were never needed nor used. Pretty good update here for anyone interested. Good luck on your new project.

'Almost Heaven' Survivalist Community Pines for Its Founder - Los Angeles Times

 

[davemata]

Once you understand the tactics of thread hijacking/disruption it is actually quite interesting to watch. When a liberal/fed mole/troll wants to steer a thread like this away from the original topic, throwing out an accusation is a classic tactic.

That's stupid. You going to take your ball and go home?

 

[RoneKiln]

I vote not to feed the troll.

I wish the Citadel well. I see a lot of problems in the current plan. I mentioned one off the top of my head to DukkButt in a PM and his response was intelligent and polite. He immediately asked for constructive feedback on my opinion on how to fix the perceived problem (which to him, may have never been an issue). Whether he agrees or not, he's open to feedback for possible improvement. I respect that.

"This plan sucks" is not constructive. Anyone have some ideas on how to keep such a planned community from descending into unhealthy extremism or paranoia? Any past examples of effective methods of leadership in a planned community?

Given the discussion of trying to make the community a tourist destination spot, I can't imagine the current plan is to be seperatists. You don't seperate and then shout "come visit me!" I challenge anyone here to contribute ideas to resolve possible problems instead of blanket "you suck" arguments.

 

[davemata]

I bet your vote worked out well yesterday too.

Simple: invest the time and effort in being inclusive, and making everyone's respective communities better, ( like adults) instead of buggering off to the hills and then trying to market themselves as a ruby ridge petting zoo.

Pretty simple. Take care of your neighborhood and community before making a new one to screw up.

 

[PaulZ]

I was agreeing with you. Now take your meds and think about it.

I have only one Master and He is not a mere mortal. As far as prepping I have very detailed plans I hope to put into action soon, and the only persons we might add is my good friend and neighbor and his family, and possibly a trustworthy pastor in my faith, who is in the South right now but may relocate

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I vote not to feed the troll.

I wish the Citadel well. I see a lot of problems in the current plan. I mentioned one off the top of my head to DukkButt in a PM and his response was intelligent and polite. He immediately asked for constructive feedback on my opinion on how to fix the perceived problem (which to him, may have never been an issue). Whether he agrees or not, he's open to feedback for possible improvement. I respect that.

"This plan sucks" is not constructive. Anyone have some ideas on how to keep such a planned community from descending into unhealthy extremism or paranoia? Any past examples of effective methods of leadership in a planned community?

Given the discussion of trying to make the community a tourist destination spot, I can't imagine the current plan is to be seperatists. You don't seperate and then shout "come visit me!" I challenge anyone here to contribute ideas to resolve possible problems instead of blanket "you suck" arguments.

The issue is one of character.. the problem is modern people simply do not generally have the ethics of their forebears. I don't have a solution that enables a large group of untested persons to work together in harmony, even if they share the same faith, excepting those groups that never joined "modern society".. and there are several

Inclusive? Absolutely not

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I was agreeing with you. Now take your meds and think about it.

Now there's a witty and useless post..

 

[matt_w]

As for separatists, no. Constitutionalists with an emphasis on Jefferson's Rightful Liberty. This is a survival plan, so attracting unwanted attention from .gov is unacceptable. We will get our permits, obey the law, pay our taxes and be good citizens. Not because we agree with every law but because that appears to be the best way to accomplish our goals. Pure pragmatism.

I feel I should point out that Kerodin (the guy behind this) posts things all the time to his blog about taking on the government (example: III Percent Patriots: Consider: Drones ) and "dealing with" people he doesn't agree with (example: III Percent Patriots: Counting Coup: A Challenge to Serious III Patriots III Percent Patriots: Communists have Faces & Names...and they are in your city ).

Whether or not you agree with him, you should think carefully on if it's a good idea to house yourself with someone who may be itching for a fight. There are a lot of things here that make such a community an "easy" target for the government and media to demonize.

 

[Hook686]

Contract ? Will there be Articles of Incorporation, By-laws, Standing Rules, a Board of Directors, Tribunals, Trust Deed, Mortgage, ... ?