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It's been happening for years...

They have been doing this for years but it is much worse now.

That one of many anti gun groups wants even MORE done NOW when it comes to anything gun, ammunition, reloading stuff, etc. related.

Cate
 
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Moving away from the international political issues and back to the OP.... if those types of discriminatory policies are put in place by CC issuers, I think it is quite safe to say that they are not, for the most part, politically or agenda based.

The financial institutions of the U.S. are driven only by profits, IMHO. If their predictive algorithms say they will loose more money by not complying with public pressures to impose restrictions on firearm/related purchases, then they will. If the reverse is true, then they won't.

Political climates and agendas are ever changing, but their responsibility to their shareholders is constant, long term and unwavering.

What we know too though is that a vacuum will always be filled. We've already seen the beginnings of it with parcel provider issues. When the prices of shipping a firearm by standard means became astronomical for private citizens, other services started to appear to bridge the gap and are still expanding. UPS, USPS and FedEx want to cut us off... I don't think it will take long for a domestic only delivery service catering to firearm enthusiasts to appear.

In the beginning they may not be as efficient and likely a bit more expensive, but if customers can be assured of reliable delivery without fear of their orders or items being "lost" in transit, it seems reasonably viable. As it expands, costs will decrease and efficiency will increase.

I believe the same is likely to happen in the CC provider situation as well. If options become severly limited through traditional providers, someone will step up. They may not offer the same level of extra card services or competitive rewards programs, but that's not as critical as having a reliable, universally accepted (among firearm related retailers) and secure means of payment for 2A related purchases.

Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but history shows us that markets and means are conformative and ever evolving as long as need and demand are present.

Let's just hope those CC services and shipping options don't turn out to be foreign interest ventures. ;)
 
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^^^

Ha ha!

If YOU don't think that MOST of their polices are NOT driven by a motive - political or for some other AGENDA... you need to do some more research.

WHAT THE HECK DID YOU THINK HAPPENED IN CANADA with Canadian and American TRUCKERS and their BANKS/CREDIT UNIONS plus those fundraisers!

They were SHUT DOWN!

LOOK at other places that have been shut down ALREADY and in the PAST when it came to GUN STORES AND MORE and not just with credit or debit cards but with CARD PROCESSORS?!

That was POLITICAL and AGENDA DRIVEN by some real power hungry control freaks!

Geeze Louise!

You can even see this happening with some credit unions now. Duh - member owned but LOOK deeper there. WHO they are tied in with - federal or state charter - who they help - DONATE to the community instead of giving HIGHER INTEREST RATES TO THEIR OWN MEMBERS.

I will NOT give some personal details but I have seen it and so have others UP close and personal with SEVERAL credit unions and several BANKS.

As far as banks go... they want profits and LOOK at the bottom line but don't THINK for one moment that their motives are NOT driven by politics and very SPECIFIC AGENDAS.

And foreign interests are INVOLVED when it comes to money supply issues AND when it comes to dumb @@@ policies made by PEA BRAINS in the D and R parties!

LOOK around you economy wise and what happens HERE - happens there because all of the sons of guns are involved on a WORLDWIDE not just nationwide basis.

I need to scroll on by or just ignore some posts from now on.

There is too much dumbing down of Americans when it comes to BANS, SANCTIONS, MONEY LAUNDERING, bank agendas, bank politics, etc.

My BP can't stand the ignorance even when this CRAPOLA has already happened to GUN PEOPLE and others. Real news, you know.

Cate
 
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WHAT THE HECK DID YOU THINK HAPPENED IN CANADA

That was POLITICAL and AGENDA DRIVEN by some real power hungry control freaks!

Geeze Louise!
Who gives a flying flip about what happens in Canada's constitutional monarchy as it relates to their banking system. You can't draw exact parallels to the U.S. by how other countries government models and banking systems operate.

Geeze Louise! Not everything hinges solely on conspiracies. ;)

The U.S. banking system is highly influenced by special interest groups with an agenda... no doubt.

...But the bottom line prevails. Not that there are not exceptions (aka high risk assessments), but typically, they won't do any policy shifts unless it makes reasonable economic sense to do so. That does not exclude special interests with an agenda from the picture... if the financial impact they bear is significant enough... but if the numbers don't pan out, no amount of letter writing by any number of senators or the "woke" rhetoric fad is enough for them to give up their piece of the pie.

You have to be able to rationally look past the flares of the dramatics and lure of conspiracy theories to the root issue in play. US financial institutions.... it's the almighty $... pure and simple.

You may respectifully disagree, but just because your opinion is different does NOT make it acceptable to start insinuating that anyone who doesn't agree with you is just the dumbed down ignorant american public.

Not cool... in the slightest.

Just sayin.....
 
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Who gives a flying flip about what happens in Canada's constitutional monarchy as it relates to their banking system. You can't draw exact parallels to the U.S. by how other countries government models and banking systems operate.

Geeze Louise! Not everything hinges solely on conspiracies. ;)

The U.S. banking system is highly influenced by special interest groups with an agenda... no doubt.

...But the bottom line prevails. Not that there are not exceptions (aka high risk assessments), but typically, they won't do any policy shifts unless it makes reasonable economic sense to do so. That does not exclude special interests with an agenda from the picture... if the financial impact they bear is significant enough... but if the numbers don't pan out, no amount of letter writing by any number of senators or the "woke" rhetoric fad is enough for them to give up their piece of the pie.

You have to be able to rationally look past the flares of the dramatics and lure of conspiracy theories to the root issue in play. US financial institutions.... it's the almighty $... pure and simple.

You may respectifully disagree, but just because your opinion is different does NOT make it acceptable to start insinuating that anyone who doesn't agree with you is just the dumbed down ignorant american public.

Not cool... in the slightest.

Just sayin.....
You really are DENSE.

They BLOCKED American cards too.

Left them stranded with NO access to their money.

Shut down accounts.

SHUT DOWN American and other fund raising groups.

IT was not and is not some CONSPIRACY THEORY.

Bye. IGNORE time and you will be my first if I can figure it out how to do this.

DONE and that was easy to do!

Cate
 
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I find it interesting that we can spend countless hours online here or YouTube or whatever but not get up and stay focused in the areas that we should be going to and what we should be doing.

ALL of these people that want answers for this or that actually GO to the places and stand up and speak out! It’s a novel concept. The hippies did it in the 60’s as one example. That happened SIXTY years ago! Go to local town meetings and say something. It’s called open forum when you do. The amount of time we waste bickering about things with people that have the same overall idea’s and beliefs is silly. o_O


All of the time they are sitting back at the end of the day laughing at US ALL! ME AND YOU! So keep typing away and ignore my advice and watch it all burn down if you want or DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!



:s0137:
 
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The amount of time we waste bickering about things with people that have the same overall idea’s and beliefs is silly. o_O
We're done. :s0155: She got a bit condescending and rude, I called her on it a bit, she put me on ignore. We're good now!:s0140:

Point taken on town meetings though. It's very easy to get caught up forwarding pertinent information around in an effort to inform a broader audience digitally, but there is so much of it coming in so fast from all directions... It can all start to sound like whitenoise.

The message doesn't have the same impact as standing up in person and presenting info to a focused audience or putting yourself in a position to have an opportunity to speak one on one to someone... and actually be "heard".
 
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I find it interesting that we can spend countless hours online here or YouTube or whatever but not get up and stay focused in the areas that we should be going to and what we should be doing.

ALL of these people that want answers for this or that actually GO to the places and stand up and speak out! It’s a novel concept. The hippies did it in the 60’s as one example. That happened SIXTY years ago! Go to local town meetings and say something. It’s called open forum when you do. The amount of time we waste bickering about things with people that have the same overall idea’s and beliefs is silly. o_O


All of the time they are sitting back at the end of the day laughing at US ALL! ME AND YOU! So keep typing away and ignore my advice and watch it all burn down if you want or DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!



:s0137:
Speak for yourself.

LOTS of us who post online are VERY ACTIVE in gun issues, gun politics, ALL politics, etc.

I have been involved in politics and passing out literature since I was 12 years old.

Fact not fiction.

I turned 72 years old this summer.

I was raised OLD SCHOOL and came from a long line of OLD FASHIONED CONSERVATIVES. NOT this neo con BS that seems to run rampant in the R and D parties.

I have a very good memory when it comes to OLD history and present history in GUN ISSUES and in many issues including when it comes to what LEADERS are doing when it comes to their POLITICS and AGENDA and how they CHOOSE TO and already have or have not been working on it.

THIS includes what they have ALREADY DONE when it comes to financial matters including cards - both types, processors, bank accounts, financial matters from a to z and PENSION funds.

Throw in what they have ALREADY DONE to people who donated to some 'causes' including the trucking issue and even going after a WAITRESS who donated $10. to their cause with her TIP MONEY. THEY traced that too. FACT not fiction.

Now, they have gone after all kinds of groups from a to z including GUN groups, gun boards/forums, GUN POLITICAL groups - PRO RKBA, and thrown those MAIG MAYORS (BLOOMBERG group for mayors!) into the MIX when it came to some western cities and what they did with the CITY COUNCIL, the now dead mayor in MY TOWN WHO WAS AN ANTI GUN MAN, etc.

IT was pretty bad and many of us including ME were on it like stink on S. My own so called R former AG FOX was pretty worthless and was LATE in doing his DUTY.

The city council passed some bs a couple of years ago WILLY NILLY and most people, INCLUDING GUN OWNERS, were so STUPID and clueless that they did not know that was FORBIDDEN IN THE CITY ALL OF A SUDDEN WAS ALLOWED ACROSS THE COUNTY LINE - IN THE COUNTY.

Then the anti gunners wanted and did OUTLAW guns on some other properties that was NOT legal at all and, in fact, AGAINST the MT Constitution but that did NOT stop the control freak stupidos.

IT WENT TO THE MT SUPREME COURT. Uh huh.

Why? BECAUSE THE LAZY AND LATE FORMER AG OF MT WHO WAS A REPUBLICAN DID NOT DO HIS DANG JOB.

Then, it went to a BALLOT ISSUE - a vote which could have FAILED but it did not and if it had passed - we would be another OR or WA or some other dip s ANTI GUN POLICY STATE.

We had a do do D Governor at the time too. I am not going there now.

MANY PEOPLE were and are to blame.

MORE TO SAY THERE. I got the ball rolling because leaders even at my own range did NOT know what the HECK WAS GOING ON. I INFORMED THEM via several telephone calls. I emailed them too. They did NOT KNOW what was going ON in their own city or county in THIS STATE. Many of them had NO clue. FACT.

The NRA (LOL) showed up one time at a council meeting. The NRA man was a joke in his own way and he was from CALIFORNIA if my memory serves me right.

I CALLED THE NRA IN VA and tried to get a straight answer from them and to have a MAN PRESENT or to do something. THEY WOULD NOT EVEN TELL ME IF SOMEONE WOULD COME TO ONE FREAKING MEETING.

THEY DID NO ADS. THEY DID NOTHING. ONE MAN SHOWED UP ONE TIME. WHOOPTY DOO. LOL

The NRA man went to ONE meeting at the STATE CAPITOL with a couple of people AND the BLOOMBERG Mommy groups, the anti gun Rabbi - ONE MAN and he was from BOANGELES, eerrr Bozeman if MY memory is correct, the anti gun RC and Protestant priests/pastors, teachers, YOUNG teens, other anti gun Mommy types, etc.

The one Rabbi said that he represented ALL of the rabbis in MT and they wanted MORE GUN CONTROL just as the other religious leaders stated. Uh huh.

IT IS ALL on tape with sound and it was easy to find on the boob tube LIVE and ON TAPE and it is in M's system = channel for capitol meetings and other STATE MATTERS = local or not.

THIS group and others like them were also TIED INTO the FL whack job - ANTI GUN group out of PARKLAND, FL = the older teen who is now a YOUNG MAN and he kind of LOOKS LIKE like Lanza (CT) in his own way.

His name is ADAM HOGG and he stated LIVE and in many places on and off the NEWS and in interviews that his Dad worked or did work for the FBI and his Mom worked for CNN for a time frame. He and a group of his friends even toured her STUDIO. IT was on film.

The ANTI GUNNER groups made several films and not just about the PARKLAND, FL MURDERS, the CT murders, etc. They are ON PBS and online through PBS or through other LINKS if you choose to see what they are all about. Their politics and AGENDA.

ALL of the speeches in and outside of Montana were close and KIND of like what many of them said LOCALLY in ANTI GUN rants in and out of college towns and elsewhere in this state. Plus what was stated all across this nation at rallies AND in the District of Criminals.

MANY of us do all of the right things. Are you saying that you think that some of us do not do these things?

IF so, you are wrong, dead wrong, about many of us HERE or on other places online and OFFLINE.

YOU do you.

I will do me and others can do what they CHOOSE to do when it comes to the RKBA and in all pro gun and other LIBERTY - gun and non gun politics.

Many of us have DROPPED some of our financial institutions and TIES with them TOTALLY or as best as we can with some of our pensions too.

We do KNOW what it is like to be on way more than ONE LIST because we dared to complain to our dumb bunny leaders in the D, R and X political parties.

LETTERS = hand written or typed ones, a few emails, MANY TELEPHONE CALLS in our home states and to the DISTRICT OF CRIMINALS too.

Have a good week.

NO need to respond. YOU do you. I will do me. Others can choose to be involved and pay close attention to the dung going ON around them.

And for the people who think that .gov folks (National/International.) or financial institutions can't go AFTER PEOPLE that they do not think are WOKE ENOUGH or do not agree with THEM or even if they think (NOT!) that those places do NOT get into politics or have an AGENDA - they are NOT well informed. THEY ARE IGNORANT.

And I am NOT calling YOU ignorant when I am talking about OTHER PEOPLE in and out of the GUN WORLD.

Cate
 
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I can't stand LOOKING at that conceited and FULL of you know what young man.

HIS smirk alone reminds me of many others of his ILK in the anti gun movement, higher ups in our own government - both parties and even many here in THIS STATE not only in our city/county/state so called leadership!

Ugh. He is FULL of you know what.

Previously, he stated that he wanted to go into broadcasting like his CNN Mom in one interview. The last that I read was that he was going to or was studying 'law'. Beats me on the TRUTH there.

I think that he is another attention whore who will make LOTS of money with his former/present FBI Dad's connections and with his Mom's too.

Plus did you notice how SOON, almost immediately AFTER the school shootings, his PARKLAND website - anti gun group was all SET UP and ready to go?!

That was on some ABC news interview and they were sitting in their kitchen or dining room at a TABLE interviewing him and his parents.

Cate
 
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Yes but now they want to delve deeper into it, that should be a concern for most of us.
These anti-gun groups need to be investigated and shut down for such nefarious and devious tactics.

Yes, Credit card companies track what we buy loosely in categories; currently, firearm retailers are classified as 5999 Miscellaneous retail stores or 5941 Sporting Goods Stores, and that's where it ends. They are creating new specific codes for guns & ammo, and this information is accessible to anyone, specifically the government, without a warrant or..why and how will this be used?

You need to know what they are already keeping..

- Every credit, debit, or check purchase is now kept...forever
-The history of every package sent to you or you sent by USPS, FedX, UPS is kept forever.
-Google keeps every search query you've ever made, and every website and forum is kept forever.
-Every email, post on FB, Instagram, or this forum, even if you deleted it, is kept ...forever.
-Utility usage is kept forever
-phone, email, and text
-Parking, speeding, tickets,


You might recall all those secretive data centers they have built to keep everything! Ultimately to build profiles of all of us and use computers to asses our risk, Risk of what? Anything those in control of the data deem concerning

The problem is, If I can get enough info on any of you and dig through it, I can probably build enough for probable cause of some kind


It's scary.


This administration has been seeking state data and lists of gun owners.



Some sheriffs are refusing.



Top fed data centers

Below represents nearly 2 million sq ft of government data storage run by the NSA. This is not for government agencies to use like the defense department or health department they have their own data centers


-Bumblehive is one of the largest government-owned facilities, costing a whopping 1.2 billion dollars. Its 100,000 sq-ft Tier III data center is used to monitor our nation.

-NSA data center located in Augusta, Georgia, extends over 160 acres of land and 604,000 square feet of facilities

-NSA Fort Meade for an estimated $895.6 million. state-of-the-art supercomputing powerhouse. The facility is over 600,000 sq-ft

-NSA data site on Lackland Air Force Base. Although the site is veiled in secrecy, the building is covered extensively by A/C units and accounts for 470,000 square feet of land.

-The NWSC is Located in Cheyenne, WY, and this data center 170,000 square feet. What is most impressive is the power density of 1,000 watts per square foot, ranking it among the top 1 percent of data centers in the world for efficiency.


-IBM built for government agencies' data center in Boulder, CO. Measuring in at 115,000 square feet,
 
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Coming from all directions.

During Arizona's Centennial year, Police Chief Williams was honored as one of Arizona's 48 Most Intriguing Women by the Arizona Centennial Legacy Project, in partnership with the Arizona Historical Society and the Arizona Community Foundation for her leadership in the law enforcement profession. In 2016, she was recognized as California Assembly District 44 Woman of the Year for her leadership and outstanding accomplishments as Chief of the Oxnard Police Department. Later that year, President Obama appointed her to a membership position on the Medal of Valor Review Board. In 2020, Chief Williams was named to the United States Conference of Mayors Police Reform and Racial Justice Working Group, and in 2021, she was appointed to the Arizona Peace Officer Standards and Training Board.

Chief Williams holds a bachelor's degree in Fine Arts from Arizona State University and a master's degree in Education from Northern Arizona University.

She has proposed
  • Banning internet ammunition sales and requiring in-person transactions, records of sales, and licensing of ammunition vendors.
  • Banning "bump-stock" devices that replicate fully automatic weapons fire.
  • Requiring and improving background checks on all firearm sales.
  • Pass legislation for "extreme risk protection orders," which allow police to confiscate guns from individuals posing a risk to others or themselves.
  • Reinstitute the ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.
 
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Coming from all directions.

During Arizona's Centennial year, Police Chief Williams was honored as one of Arizona's 48 Most Intriguing Women by the Arizona Centennial Legacy Project, in partnership with the Arizona Historical Society and the Arizona Community Foundation for her leadership in the law enforcement profession. In 2016, she was recognized as California Assembly District 44 Woman of the Year for her leadership and outstanding accomplishments as Chief of the Oxnard Police Department. Later that year, President Obama appointed her to a membership position on the Medal of Valor Review Board. In 2020, Chief Williams was named to the United States Conference of Mayors Police Reform and Racial Justice Working Group, and in 2021, she was appointed to the Arizona Peace Officer Standards and Training Board.

Chief Williams holds a bachelor's degree in Fine Arts from Arizona State University and a master's degree in Education from Northern Arizona University.

She has proposed
  • Banning internet ammunition sales and requiring in-person transactions, records of sales, and licensing of ammunition vendors.
  • Banning "bump-stock" devices that replicate fully automatic weapons fire.
  • Requiring and improving background checks on all firearm sales.
  • Pass legislation for "extreme risk protection orders," which allow police to confiscate guns from individuals posing a risk to others or themselves.
  • Reinstitute the ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.
There are plenty of woke crats with seemingly decent pedigrees, but what does she have to do with the credit card discrimination issue?
 
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