Teens viciously attack two elderly men

[Riot]

Kids these days....this is why kids need to be beat by their elders so they aren't the one's doing the beatings.

 

[matt_w]

Guys, I know how you all feel. I am mad as heck. But, since this is the Strategies, Tactics and Training forum, I'd like you to put yourselves on the 51yr old guy inside the store who comes out to try to pry the yoots out of his car, where he left the 73yr old man while he went to make a 911 call. He too got the crap beat out of him. He could have stayed inside and be spared from the beating. I wouldn't, and neither would most of you. So, what next? No emotions. This is training.

IMHO, defensive handgun is 20% shooting skills, 80% decision making.

How many kids were there, and how many rounds do you have in your gun? While you could probably be justified in using your handgun to protect yourself and your friend (they had ability and opportunity to do serious injury/kill you), what if they all mobbed you at once? What if one of them had a gun?

I guess a better question would be if using a gun in such a situation would increase or decrease your chance of survival.

 

[Atroxus]

Those scumbags need to go to prison for a VERY long time. As far as legality of coming out of the car shooting I am pretty sure 6 to 1 odds would be more than sufficient to indicate threat of grave personal injury, and we have no duty to retreat. So in my opinion anyone who is armed in that type of situation should start shooting before being dragged out of the vehicle. I doubt anyone would be overly eager to stick their head in the window if theres bullets coming out at them. It's too bad the elders weren't packing though, it could have been a very different outcome.

 

[Father of four]

I have NO PITY for these teens. NONE! They should have all been killed right there on the spot!

 

[Father of four]

As for coming out of the car firing..You let them try this on a LEO and see what he/shes does! If a LEO has the right to protect his/herself with deadly force SO DO WE!

 

[clearconscience]

That makes me sick to my stomach to watch.
I'm 28 and to see something like that makes me furious.
The thing that makes me angry is if one of those guys would have shot a kid, or a CHL holder shot one of them they would be going to jail for life and the kids would be looked at as just silly kids.
But you have to damn near get beaten to death before they think it's a crime against you. Our laws are made to protect you after something bad happens, and God help you if you ever try to defend yourself.

Were a country that takes away God given rights to be free, and replaces them with laws to protect the criminals, and against the good.

 

[56kninja]

Guys, I know how you all feel. I am mad as heck. But, since this is the Strategies, Tactics and Training forum, I'd like you to put yourselves on the 51yr old guy inside the store who comes out to try to pry the yoots out of his car, where he left the 73yr old man while he went to make a 911 call. He too got the crap beat out of him. He could have stayed inside and be spared from the beating. I wouldn't, and neither would most of you. So, what next? No emotions. This is training.

IMHO, defensive handgun is 20% shooting skills, 80% decision making.

Well. At 51, if you're a good fighter, and perhaps have the proper space, and ability you could fight them.

At 73.. If you're in good health and have been doing martial arts your whole life, probably the same, and sometimes more.

I didn't watch the video though, so I can't speak to whether it was a chance for them to fight them off.

But, I wouldn't shoot them, not unless they had a knife or a weapon of some sort. Of course, they would probably be gone faster than they came if you drew a gun. Or they might be ready to shoot you too, so.. I guess, you'd better control that situation 100% and be ready to shoot at a sudden movement. Which may or may not be them pulling a gun.

Of course in my opinion if I have created criteria where I would start shooting, then I probably shouldn't be having that gun out.

 

[trainsktg]

Watch the video first, then comment. Nothing short of Conan, the Terminator, or a well armed citizen with a .45ACP would have stopped these thugs from doing what they did. I'm 6'1", 215#, a powerlifter and have been training in hand-to-hand for the last 33 years and I don't believe I could have gotten out of this situation by myself without a weapon.

Keith

 

[GRUNDEL]

I would love to hear from the two victims and see if they would have used a handgun to defend themselves from this attack if they had to go through it again

 

[powersbj]

Baseball bat...

 

[orygunmike]

Teens viciously attach two men, 51 and 73yr old. All caught on video:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4196015/teens-viciously-beat-elderly-man?playlist_id=86856

Had you been the 51 yr old man, had you come out guns glazing, no warning? There is not enough distance between the establishment door, the vehicle and the BGs.

Ability. Check. Disparity of force without a doubt.
Opportunity. Check. They have already delivered several wicked blows, any of which could result in grave bodily harm.
Jeopardy. Check. The intentions of the hoodlums is clear as evidenced by the violent assault.

The 51 year old is in the situation that he knows the background of what is happening, he knows his friend is an innocent party to this fight. He has the right under the laws of any state I can imagine to use the proper degree of force, up to and including lethal force, to defend an innocent person.

Does he come out shooting? Best case he shouts a warning and gives them the opportunity to stop the assault and run. Tough call...he may have ended up looking down the own barrel of his own gun if he gave the assaulters time to react. And holding people like this is no easy task...it is a 360 degree world, and he is a new comer to this level of violence. All things being equal, in his situation, if the gun comes out I'd say go to guns and be prepared for a fast reload.

 

[Silver Fox]

Sometimes I wish the Boondock Saints actually existed.

I am Raising the future Boondock Saints


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[Father of four]

Try and make good honorable men out of them! Good luck!

 

[trainsktg]

Hey SF, that looks like a Saiga 12 on the left . Or is that a silencer? Whatever, the bore looks pretty big.

Keith

 

[toobigtofail]

Those attackers are animals and should be put down. Now, realistically, they need to spend at least five years in the can each. Unfortunately, because they are kids, they'll get a slap on the wrist. Where is the justice for these victims?

 

[Murphy]

There are very few circumstances where I would render aid with a firearm to other individuals. This happens to be one where I would not hesitate.

When there are several individuals standing around and taking turns kicking/beating two individuals while they are on the ground there is a serious problem with society.

Its too bad this story didn't start with 51 or 70 year old man shot and killed 5+ youths for a vicious attack.

 

[elsullo]

I am a news addict and watch all of the local channels' newscasts. Oddly, this tape clip has never appeared locally at all, in spite of lots of other more lame clips from all over the country. None of the broadcast networks has shown it either.

Maybe they fear that the clip would be construed to have a racial theme. But mostly, I think they fear to show this clip because IT IS SO VERY PRO-GUN!.......................elsullo

 

[Blitzkrieg]

How many kids were there, and how many rounds do you have in your gun? While you could probably be justified in using your handgun to protect yourself and your friend (they had ability and opportunity to do serious injury/kill you), what if they all mobbed you at once? What if one of them had a gun?

I guess a better question would be if using a gun in such a situation would increase or decrease your chance of survival.

These kind drop/and or run like scalded rabbits at the sound of gunfire. Unless you shot them as they ran I doubt you could bag more than 2 before they were running. I carry at minimum 41 rounds loaded up for my 40 BHP, and if I were in that hood, more mags plus a backup and reloads for it. If I were there there would have been fatalities, mass attack is justification if anything is

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I am Raising the future Boondock Saints


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I hope you were not letting them point guns at you as you took the pic?

 

[sillyrabbit]

No question in my mind this was a life threatening situation especially considering the victims drove away from the first encounter and the teens followed! Then used their ever so "honorable" gang mentality and "oh so much bravery" [sic] ! to attack those radical "racists" SITTING in the car with the door shut and the other in the store! (I can here the charges now against those white racists..., "putting there heads and bodies right in front of all those poor boys feet and fists!, they should have known better)

IMHO..... I would come out and warn them ONCE! and then FIRE for effect as needed!

It's all on video to back it up. NO hesitation, NO remorse!

Sadly, I've been almost where those "white boys" were, and I took the same type beating...... all for being in there "hood" years ago (btw, I also lived in that "hood", they just thought they owned it after dark, which they did!). I was able to lay one of em out with a throat smash and prevented one other from any "girlfriend time" for a few days, but my odds against the other three werrn't quite as good! Thankfully I had a friend come a long just in time as I was taking my rib kicking and head stomping........... or I might have had more injuries than just a overnight stay in the emergency room!

So, nope, NO hesitation and NO remorse for me! Come out "swinging" and aiming! as required.

PS. Yes I did move out of Kaliforny sometime later!
I grew up in that mentality, I was raised in it! I know how they think and believe me, if your naive enough to think you can avoid it or change those "poor" boys....... think again! they only know one thing and one thing only..... violence and force by numbers....... no other!