Tea Party organizers say "No guns!"

[yubariver]

Jefferson wasn't god, and he said some contradictory, if not foolish things
sometimes.

IE. Ideologically he didn't believe the Louisiana purchase was the right thing to
do, but it was too good a deal to pass up.

Hanging your hat on the same reasoning that Tim McVeigh used-


I think there is plenty of ignorance to spread around.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Gandhi did not approve of the use of weapons at political rallies. He didn't even approve of the use of weapons when fighting armies and overthrowing empires.

Just sayin'.

‘‘Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.’’
— Mahatma Ghandi, "Gandhi, An Autobiography", page 446

Ghandi, just sayin'

 

[Blitzkrieg]

India was/is so socially fragmented, it would have been next to impossible to coordinate any sort of military rebellion.

Also, India was disarmed and had no real options in that regard, they had only the Thuggi/Kali assassins, an art in which I am trained

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I think Blitzkrieg's "big tent" philosophy is an umbrella.

We don't mind if you like being peed on while being told it's raining

 

[ZachS]

Ghandi, just sayin'

Check back to my post - it was in response to that quote, which I'm well familiar with. Gandhi knew the value of the force of arms, but took a different route in his own life. He'd been talking about nonviolence since the 19th century, though, and never would have been a military leader. If the Indian people had been well-armed, this probably would have been a moot point, as they would have rid themselves of the British long before. Heck, they even tried it out before.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Check back to my post - it was in response to that quote, which I'm well familiar with. Gandhi knew the value of the force of arms, but took a different route in his own life. He'd been talking about nonviolence since the 19th century, though, and never would have been a military leader. If the Indian people had been well-armed, this probably would have been a moot point, as they would have rid themselves of the British long before. Heck, they even tried it out before.

Yes, well then why did Ghandi say that the Indian people needed arms?

 

[ZachS]

Yes, well then why did Ghandi say that the Indian people needed arms?

Dunno, to get a correct answer you'd have to ask someone who knows a lot more about Indian history than me and you combined. All I know is that Gandhi believed strongly in nonviolent resistance. I also know that he was a smart fellow who would have pointed out something that was obviously true even if it contradicted his beliefs.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Dunno, to get a correct answer you'd have to ask someone who knows a lot more about Indian history than me and you combined. All I know is that Gandhi believed strongly in nonviolent resistance. I also know that he was a smart fellow who would have pointed out something that was obviously true even if it contradicted his beliefs.

He accepted non violent resistance because it was all he had left. We are not situated in this manner, praise Yahweh-God

 

[watcher]

Gandhi professed non-violence but he did nothing to rein in his Hindu party followers who rioted frequently against the rival Muslims.

At this point the British had already said they were leaving India. In the last years the British were actually acting as a police force trying to keep the rival Hindus and Muslims apart while a constitution was created. As usual in these circumstances the British became the target of both sides that they were trying to help. They failed in the attempt to create a unified Indian government and eventually they virtually walked out of India leaving it to be partitioned into what are now India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

 

[zeezee]

Thanks ZeeZee.
You will not accept or believe this but I can agree to disagree with you on almost everything except the descent into armed rebellion. That way lies the destruction of the nation.

In the words of the old medical joke "the operation was a success but unfortunately the patient died". That is how I see the result of the revolution so many here seem to desire.

Watcher, only a fool wants war and I pray we are not so foolish as to believe we, either side can win. I believe in the constitution, and I believe working within the frame of the Constitution but . . . How much of our constitutional rights do we retain? We are being forced to purchase health care, what other products are they going to force us to purchase? They are spending money, money our grandchildren will be forced to pay back and no I'm not just pointing my finger at bho. GWB did us a large disservice with his spending and I think the time has come for the citizens of this country to start partaking in the politics that effect us all. I care not for your faith, nor your political party as long as we agree we must work the constitution as the founding fathers wrote it and when something needs changing we amend the constitution to adapt to these changes.

 

[watcher]

Amen on most of that.

We are effected by our circumstances. I know a young man who had two unusual ailments, one of them was a shoulder problem that caused him intense pain and prevented him from working. He is now $27,000 in debt and trying to pay off the debt to the hospital at a few dollars a month, I doubt he is making a dent in the bill even though we did all we can to help. He has now been told he has a "shadow" on his liver that should be checked, another $5,000 total. He does not have the money, has never had a job with medical insurance, and he has been told he is unlikely to get more hospital service because of his debts.

This is good kid who has always worked hard but he has been sXXX on because he has no paper qualifications.

Ask me if object to universal health care.

 

[Partsproduction]

Watcher, First of all, I mistook you as the one who said they were a teacher, it was not you.

Partsproduction is a man who claims not to advocate violent revolution then he goes on to quote a string of comments all of which do, in the strongest terms, approve and encourage that revolution. It is hardly difficult to see where his ideas lie, at least at a subliminal level.

It's kinda hard to find quotes from the founding fathers that say we should let our government stomp all over us with unconstitutional debt incurring plans like the health care bill. I didn't run into any quotes that said we should bend over and allow wild taxation without representation, actually the reverse is true.

So, quoting the ideas of the founders of this country makes my hands bloody huh?

I quoted them to show you that the founding fathers believed violence is the responsibility of the people (Oh, and by the way, like it or not, that includes you!), to ensure that our nation stays under the concepts it was founded upon.

Those men believed you and I have a duty to stand up and demand that government not do as Mr. Obama and our "leaders" have been doing for the last year. Your apparent aversion to violence is not in line with the writings of the geniuses like Adams, Jefferson (et al) who warned us of men like Mr. Obama.

Again, what value is the life of slavery to you? Violence is so wrong apparently to you that you will endure all manner of corruption and fraud and abuse?

Should the "people" vote for communism do you imagine Jefferson nodding his head and saying, "well, at least no one dies, so OK"?

The things being done to our country today demand our utmost civic efforts to stop and reverse them. Violence is bad, slavery and treasonous disregard for duty is far worse.

From my readings I'm wondering if we all are not due blame for not rising up already! We have shirked our duty perhaps.

Watcher, do you know what they said? Did they say to you somewhere (That I haven't yet found) that we should strive only up to the point of violence?

Do you disagree with what I said, that civil war is not the worse thing that can happen to a nation? Can you admit that the founders didn't agree with that? (Basic common sense says they didn't)

Lastly, the conversation is not really about me, or what subliminal bent I have towards violence. It's about getting our country back. I'm not calling for revolution, I'm calling for unification against tyranny.

 

[zeezee]

Amen on most of that.

We are effected by our circumstances. I know a young man who had two unusual ailments, one of them was a shoulder problem that caused him intense pain and prevented him from working. He is now $27,000 in debt and trying to pay off the debt to the hospital at a few dollars a month, I doubt he is making a dent in the bill even though we did all we can to help. He has now been told he has a "shadow" on his liver that should be checked, another $5,000 total. He does not have the money, has never had a job with medical insurance, and he has been told he is unlikely to get more hospital service because of his debts.

This is good kid who has always worked hard but he has been sXXX on because he has no paper qualifications.

Ask me if object to universal health care.

So pay his bills for him but don't ask me or anyone else to. You want universal healthcare move to england, or australia or canada where socialist healthcare there is a failing miserable mess. Everyone has issues, everyone has problems but our government, especially the federal government is not set up, was never intended to hold everyone's hand. I for one want nothing to do with there universal health care and if I did not have the work ethic I do, I'd be tempted to join the 46% of Americans who pay no income tax, get food stamps, collect welfare, live in government housing and spend the rest of my life living off uncle sam.
And by can't work you mean he has to have someone feed and cloth him? If a man can dress himself and if he can raise a fork to his mouth, if he can get in and out of bed he is not too invalided to work. True maybe he can't do the work he is capable of doing but surely he can type and or move a mouse? Or turn the pages of a book to review printed material or do research. Or maybe pick up a book and start studying for a job he can do, maybe even go to the library and try to learn something? Yeah, I know he can't. None of us are perfect, all of us are handicapped to some degree but it is how we overcome our handicaps that make us better than the someone else. Look at that genius who has the crippling disease, lives in a wheelchair, has to use some weird electronic gizmo to communicate. Is your friend that bad off? No, I didn't think so but Stephen Hawkins is still working despite his crippling pain and handicaps. LOL! And you know what's funny, Hawkins is a british subject who comes to AMERICA for his health care. The best healthcare on the planet and you want to erode it so it's like Britons, or frances or any of those other American hating cesspools. My advice, move to one of those socialist/communist/marxist countries and take your buddy with you.

 

[watcher]

ZeeZee,
That is the first post in this twisted and off track thread that is pure, unadulterated, crap. (Excuse me, that is a word I rarely use.) You know absolutely nothing of other nation's health care. You spout the regurgitated slime of talk radio, you take it into your ears, and without a seconds pause to examine it in your brain, you pour it out, amplified, from your mouth.

The founding fathers, honorable men, would be ashamed that a man with such lack of charity, such extreme selfishness, such a repulsive attitude towards his fellow men, could exist in this country. God forbid that the mentality you project should flourish in this country because if it does the greatness has gone from America.

 

[Stomper]

Ahem... Watcher, take a pill... that wasn't the point ZeeZee was making, and if you're going to start spouting about "charity", then you ought to know that charity is a free will act, NOT LEGISLATED from a central government entity in DC. Don't be hijacking the bible to make your point...

II Corinthians 9:7 -
So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver" (The Revised Standard Version has) "not reluctantly or under compulsion."


I have 6 kids, I KNOW the medical/dental/orthodontists world quite well... nobody EVER gave me (nor have I ever asked for) a flippin' dime to pay for all of those bills. Matter o' fact, I have STELLAR health insurance, but I'm still payin' on stuff like deductibles and co-pays from over the years, must be at least $14k still left that I'm chippin' away on.... WAAH WAAH WAAH for me, huh?

 

[watcher]

I've been looking a the TParty. I thought it might be a viable way of creating needed change in our government but here is what I have found out. The TParty consists of "the Good, the Bad and the Ugly".

"The Good" are the people attracted to the TParty as a possible 3rd party solution.

"The Bad" are the base of the movement, no logic, basically supporting selfish goals. Noisy but ineffectual and disorganized.

"The Ugly" are actually anarchists claiming a patriotic motive. They can't stand the idea that their marginalized little minority is not ruling the country so that they can recreate their James Fenimore Cooper fantasy of the perfect America.

"The Good" will abandon the TParty when they see how ineffectual "The Bad" really are and when they realize how ugly "The Ugly" really are. "The Bad" will mill around forever wondering what happened while they were dressing up in their George Washington outfits. "The Ugly" will continue to spit sound and fury and count for nothing.

As a commentator said "The problem with the right wing is that they hold their meetings in a big box. The box echoes their voices so they think there are more people involved than there really are and they do not realize that their message is not getting outside of the box".

 

[Partsproduction]

You know absolutely nothing of other nation's health care. You spout the regurgitated slime of talk radio, you take it into your ears, and without a seconds pause to examine it in your brain, you pour it out, amplified, from your mouth.

The founding fathers, honorable men, would be ashamed that a man with such lack of charity, such extreme selfishness, such a repulsive attitude towards his fellow men, could exist in this country.

Your statements make sense only if the reader is ignorant of what the founding fathers believed in, and pledged their lives and fortunes for. Please show where the founders believed in stealing from me to pay for health care or food or anything else for others.

You live in a fantasy world friend. An acquaintance of mine blathered the BS about charity to me, said "That's the Christian way". But Christian charity is exhibited when I see a need, and take from my own pocket and give to help ease that need. No government involved, no prison time threatened, and all the money goes to my neighbors needs.

By your definition of charity if I see a need I should rob you and give to that need, and set up a huge bureaucracy for the dissemination of the stolen money that wastes 70% of it! Where did you get such a twisted idea of charity?

 

[Partsproduction]

"The Good" are the people attracted to the TParty as a possible 3rd party solution.

Error. The TP is good for forcing rhinos out of conservative politics. A third party divides our votes and allow the marxists more power in Washington.

"The Bad" are the base of the movement, no logic, basically supporting selfish goals. Noisy but ineffectual and disorganized.

Wrong again! If we weren't effective, if we were disorganized, the left wouldn't be so freaked out about us!

"The Ugly" are actually anarchists claiming a patriotic motive. They can't stand the idea that their marginalized little minority is not ruling the country so that they can recreate their James Fenimore Cooper fantasy of the perfect America.

Batting 1000! No one who endorses the Constitution is anarchistic. You need to begin to understand the founding of this country, the wrongs suffered and the establishment of a constitutional government whose purpose was to overthrow tyrants! You calling patriots anarchists doesn't make it so, and here we are, trying to oppose tyranny again, and you are trying to prop up the tyrants.

As a commentator said "The problem with the right wing is that they hold their meetings in a big box. The box echoes their voices so they think there are more people involved than there really are and they do not realize that their message is not getting outside of the box".

Who owns the media? Who owned the media in the 18th century? We prevailed then and we will prevail again.

 

[Member 5605]

Word PP

 

[zeezee]

I've been looking a the TParty. I thought it might be a viable way of creating needed change in our government but here is what I have found out. The TParty consists of "the Good, the Bad and the Ugly".

"The Good" are the people attracted to the TParty as a possible 3rd party solution.

"The Bad" are the base of the movement, no logic, basically supporting selfish goals. Noisy but ineffectual and disorganized.

"The Ugly" are actually anarchists claiming a patriotic motive. They can't stand the idea that their marginalized little minority is not ruling the country so that they can recreate their James Fenimore Cooper fantasy of the perfect America.

"The Good" will abandon the TParty when they see how ineffectual "The Bad" really are and when they realize how ugly "The Ugly" really are. "The Bad" will mill around forever wondering what happened while they were dressing up in their George Washington outfits. "The Ugly" will continue to spit sound and fury and count for nothing.

As a commentator said "The problem with the right wing is that they hold their meetings in a big box. The box echoes their voices so they think there are more people involved than there really are and they do not realize that their message is not getting outside of the box".

You claim to be Christian and yet you seemingly know nothing about Christianity. You claim I know nothing about other countries socialist health care and to a degree that is true, but I know enough to know that I am proud that we have the best health care on earth. The RICH people, the ruling class, the elite from all over the globe come here for OUR MEDICAL treatment! And that is a fact. I for one am tired of reading your hate filled post, post that just show your ignorance about health care, the TEA Parties and the Founding Fathers.