JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
I admit I am no biblical scholar - I cannot quote chapter and verse - but I do remember reading that if one has a cloak and no sword he was urged to sell the cloak and buy a sword, and to keep it ready if he needed it. Yesterday's sword is today's pistol.

That most churches, pastors, and priests gloss over this or pay it no heed is sad. I am far from perfect and could be godlier and more adherant to the book but it bothers me that seemingly most churches prefer pacifism or outright antigun / antiprotection dogma. God will protect - no, he hill not - not in the way they think anyway. God gave man free will and the ability to reason. He guides gently but has not since biblical times directly intervened in mankinds affairs - and he is not going to do so anytime soon.

Churches and temples do not have force fields or pacifism shrouds or magical protections. Real life is not a Highlander movie where holy ground is sacred and battle cannot be waged upon it. It is up to man to defend his church as much as his own home, and his fellow worshipers as his own family.

The pastors, preachers, priests and parrishners all need to take an honest look at the world and do what is right. No church, school, park or store should ever become a slaughterhouse. But until we change course of society and of our government nothing will change. Moral, familial decay is and has erroded our society to a point where human life means nothing, there is little actual concern for others save for quips on twitter after an event, and "family values" and "common sense" and "common decency" are gone.

Perverts, psychopaths and sociopaths occupy power positions and continue to errode and assault traditional American values through the educational indoctrination of our kids, through social slavery via welfare systems, by brainwashing adults via mass media and of course filling encyclopedias with laws to crush and curtail freedoms. No sane man or woman can survive in the power structure it seems and nor are they attracted to it.

The solution to the plague of mass killings like this is complex but simple and it begins with rebuilding of the family unit, rebuilding the education system with a focus on learning facts and not political indoctrination, taking a broken window law enforcement approach as a nation, dismantling of the welfare system, and rebuilding the American economy and businesses to drive it - which could allow and encourage a return of traditional two parent, one income households, encourage young women not to become single teenage parents, encorage young men not to make babies and leave the mothers, encourage young men especially not to become thugs and criminals, provide plenty of opportunity to make a good life and usher in a new age of American prosperity and responsibility that has not been seen in my lifetime.

I believe the answer to solving the problem of violence like we saw today, like is seen every day in Chicago, DC, Detroit etc is in there. Its a mixture of it all. Our anything goes, no responsibility culture of wealthy poor people is certainly not helping abd I think is the leading factor behind these despicable acts.

The milennials - which seem to be the group that spawns most of these killers of late - are a drugged generation - a LOT grew up taking mood/behavioural altering drugs. Depression seems far higher among that group. Violent psychotic breaks seem to happen more. Look at the typical mass shooter - young men with diagnosed mental illnesses and supposed to be on some nasty mood altering drugs - drugs which have a laundry list of side effects among which are violent tendencies. I do not think drugs are the answer for most kids problems - some yes, most no. Especially the "ADD" or "ADHD" crowd.

Parental involvement, parental interaction, and parental supervision would go a long way there, plus finding outlets for the kids energies and finding the right learning style to help succeed. Maybe lead to less aggression, less depression and more well adjusted adults. No more participation trophy BS either. Children need to learn to cope with loss and failure early on in order to properly handle it as adults. They also need to learn how to properly deal with success.

Parents need to be parents first to their children and not try to be friends. That comes later if you did your job right raising them. Too many kids grew up not hearing "No" often enough. They turn into complete $#!7$ as adults if they do not get what they want. See Antifa for prime example.

Kids do not have proper role models. Parents should be #1 role models. But then you have tarlet celebs and horrible politicians constantly paraded by the media - these are what kids see and aspire to be. Milennials grew up with Clinton as top politician. They saw stars like Miley Cyrus and Brittany Spears taking up the torch where Madonna left off and hit the gas for the cliff now they worship train wrecks like the Kardashian clowns fools like Justin Bieber (still waiting fir that turd to be deported - he far surpassed the bar for deportation years ago.)

And technology has of course helped things along. We are slaves to electronic toys and instantaneous 24 hour news and gossip cycles. CNN TMZ and FOX are the epitome of "journalism" - they don't even pretend to be unbiased anymore.

Parents don't control enough of the media their kids consume. Kids see celebs being retards and want to emulate it. They see people doing horrible things and emulate it. Uninvolved parents cannot give direction to their childs moral compass.

We have a crisis in our country - but it is not a gun crisis, it is a moral crisis and horrific violence is more of the product / result of it and not he cause. Until we can fix the issues that lead to the loss of morality we cannot hope to fix the issue of violence, because as a society we refuse to acknowledge the real problems. Until then we as responsible adults can only prepare ourselves for the next occurance and the next occurance and pray it does not hit us or our loved ones.

:s0101:

Thankfully not all churches are in the "don't defend yourself" camp. I know for a fact in the churches I've belonged to over the years that I wasn't the only one carrying. In addition to regular civilians like me, those churches almost always have LE's and current or former military - all sheepdog types that take protection of themselves and others very seriously. I attend church feeling much more secure in that knowledge.

I think there is a belief that if you arm yourself for defense that you can't also be peaceful, caring, compassionate. That, I think is a place that pastors could help the message. The Bible says there is no greater love than laying one's life down for his friends (John 15:13). Some take that to mean sacrificing your time and talents, putting others first. But most would say it is inclusive of people that stand between others and danger, whether parents protecting their children, military serving the country, LE's protecting the streets, or, in this case, your friend or neighbor helping to keep you safe. Compassion and peace are not concepts that disappear when we arm ourselves for protection, rather, we arm ourselves in the hope of maintaining peace. Too many, I think, have missed that message, thus leading to the faulty belief that being unarmed and unprotected in a dangerous and unpredictable world is somehow evidence of a higher level of enlightenment. I call BS on that and will always be prepared to defend the life of myself and my family, as well as others, should the need arise. I hope more folks start waking up to that reality.

I think it was about 10 years ago. We were attending a different church at the time. The congregation was about 220, not small, but not huge. One of our members, a woman with 3 children had finally left her husband after many years of abuse. The church rallied around her to support her and her kids while they worked to get themselves in a stable place. Shortly after she left him, we learned this guy, who was a known drug user and alcoholic, saw the church, particularly the pastor, as the reason his marriage 'fell apart'. He made threats directly to the pastor, indirectly to other members of the church, including the church leadership, of which I was one at the time. And, we knew, through the wife that he owned a gun, though no one knew what it was or where he kept it. The police were brought in but they said since he hadn't done anything, there was nothing they could do. When asked what to do if he showed up, they said to call them and they'd be there right away. Well, we had no problem calling them, but with 200+ people, at least 50 who are children throughout the building on any given Sunday, we set about a plan to place armed members at strategic locations throughout the sanctuary and the rest of the building, including the education wing. We also placed several observers in the parking lots, covering each entrance so they could be the first call to the police if he showed up. Those of us that carry met separately with the pastor and we each identified ourselves so he would know who we are and where we are. The congregation, including the guy's ex-wife, were never told of this plan. We did it discreetly. About 12 of us were armed, covering the building and the congregation, assisted by a number of others that weren't armed, but were observers and ready to lock the building down if necessary. This went on for months until the threats finally stopped and the guy moved on to other things. No one ever knew, outside of our group, what was being done to protect them. In the end, a peaceful and safe place was maintained where worship could continue unabated in the face of potential evil. That, I think is really the ideal way for churches to provide a higher level of protection for their congregations. Perhaps they don't necessarily need to meet and identify a particular group of folks, but at least allow people the ability to carry for protection. As for the woman, with the church's help, she got on her feet and is doing well today, re-married to a really nice guy and her kids are healthy and happy.
 
Last Edited:
So what did we learn so far from this event:

1. Unarmed people are easy targets. Churches need to lead the way in changing this - government needs to follow. Shame on Texas for having any law in place that allows places to become shooting galleries - I would have expected better from them. And shame on any business, workplace, place of worship, etc., that trades off personal protection for a false sense of security.

2. A good guy with a gun can certainly stop a bad guy with a gun. This is going to be a hard one for the folks on the left to try and put down after this amazing citizen put his life on the line to try and save others. This guy needs a medal for this.

3. If this kid really was prohibited, yet was still able to buy a gun and pass a BGC, then the system has been shown, yet again, to be nothing more than a smoke screen. We're told over and over how BGC's will save us all from harm, yet shooting after shooting shows they simply are a false promise and really only exist to restrict those of us that actually follow the laws.

4. Government can't and won't protect you. As evidenced here, the damage was done long before LE's could arrive on site. It was only because one person was armed (unfortunately not in the church) that this was stopped. People need to be more serious about their own personal defense and safety. The biggest lie so many have bought is that the government is here to protect you. Each one of these events lays out for all to see that simply isn't true. Relying on government to protect you may just get you killed.

5. Gun control doesn't stop bad guys from doing bad things with guns. We need to push back on them every chance we get. No amount of laws or restrictions will stop these things from happening.

6. The problem is people, not objects. Some of us get that, far, far too many, don't. We need to continue to fight back against that idea too, every chance we get.
 
Compassion and peace are not concepts that disappear when we arm ourselves for protection, rather, we arm ourselves in the hope of maintaining peace.
It is a shame that this thought / message is lost or unheard when discussing having a firearm as a means to defend yourself or others.
Having used a firearm and other means of defending myself or others has not made me into a uncaring or non-compassionate person...If anything "good" is to be learned or taken from the use of a firearm to defend oneself ... It is that life is worth living and defending.
Andy
 
It is a shame that this thought / message is lost or unheard when discussing having a firearm as a means to defend yourself or others.
Having used a firearm and others means of defending myself or others has not made me into a uncaring or non-compassionate person...If anything "good" is to learned or taken from the use of a firearm to defend oneself ... It is that life is worth living and defending.
Andy

Absolutely. Imagine how the world could be a better place if more people recognized that part of compassion is the willingness, and ability, to defend a life. How that is lost on so many really is difficult for me to understand.
 
Not one single place is it written that one has to be a doormat for God... EVER !


If you want peace, then prepare and be ready for war, and if the day comes when war arrives cowboy up and start stompin' mudholes in the enemy's guts at all costs until they're dead or surrender. You can mourn for the dead when it's over.

:mad:
 
Kelley received a bad conduct discharge from the Air Force for assaulting his spouse and child, and was sentenced to 12 months' confinement after a 2012 court-martial.

This according to:
26 killed in church attack in Texas' deadliest mass shooting

9th paragraph lead sentence.

So, could a BCD still allow a person to legally buy a weapon?

His prison sentance, and domestic violence convictions already meant that. BCD/DD at that point mean nothing. Felony? Check. Domestic violence conviction x2? Double check.

Seems he lied about convictions AND state of residency and somehow passed NICS. Background checks do not work.
 
It burns me real bad that this liberal progressive antifa looser shoots Americans and the DEMORATS scream for more gun control
Not All Muslims are to blame for terror, but all Republicans are to blame for one guy shooting up a church full of mostly white Republicans
Im getting fed up with dumb corrupt bigoted liberal democrats
but yall keep voting for for your revered party that has tuned the USA into a banana republic

thanks for that
 
Any definitive word on if the "good guy with a gun" used an 'evil black rifle" that "has no place on our streets" to end this?

I would imagine that if that turns out to be the case, the networks won't willingly say so.
 
Any definitive word on if the "good guy with a gun" used an 'evil black rifle" that "has no place on our streets" to end this?

I would imagine that if that turns out to be the case, the networks won't willingly say so.
No idea. Noticed that his helper has been talking to the media for a while now. I wonder if he's media shopping like the security guy in Las Vegas did with Ellen after also being absent for a few days. not that it really matters
 
No idea. Noticed that his helper has been talking to the media for a while now. I wonder if he's media shopping like the security guy in Las Vegas did with Ellen after also being absent for a few days. not that it really matters

I wonder if he is shopping for a lawyer. Lucky for him it's Texas and not California. Listen, God bless him, for real. No sarcasm. But it looks like he killed the bad guy and not the police. Doesn't matter if it was the right thing to do. The government has to clear him.
 
here we go the spin has begun

its not because antifa declared war this weekend and he is social warrior, with ties to antifa, or that he is a christian hating left wing nut....

its because he was in a domestic dispute with his ex mother in law

ya thats why he killed everyone else :mad:
 
Predictably, the media, Hollywood and anti-gun politicians are doing everything they can to play down the 'good guy takes out the bad guy' part of the story, which, of course is devastating to their anti-gun agenda. Many are attacking this part of the story by saying "he didn't stop 26 people from dying", "the shooter was already done shooting when he intervened", and things to that effect.

This is callousness, insensitivity and stupidity to the extreme. It was noted this guy had more weapons in the car, and possibly explosives. We don't know if this church was just a first stop on a day-long murderous rampage. Yet instead of giving credit to the hero of the story, they discredit him for not stopping it sooner, apparently, in their minds, proving that a good guy with a gun doesn't stop a bad guy with a gun.

Sick f'ing bastards the lot of them.

I will celebrate this American patriot/hero for the lives he did save that day, as I continue to mourn and pray for those lives that couldn't be saved.
 
Last Edited:
just seen a picture of the guy. im not a gambling man but id bet that just lookin at him you can see the crazy in his eyes. hes got 'that look'
 
I hope the neighbor that engaged this dirtbag did so with one of those evil black AR's...

We need to take the wind out of the sails of the liberals and Democrats that seek to tighten the noose of gun control on innocent Americans. Our rights should not be up for discussion...
 

Upcoming Events

Teen Rifle 1 Class
Springfield, OR
Kids Firearm Safety 2 Class
Springfield, OR
Arms Collectors of Southwest Washington (ACSWW) gun show
Battle Ground, WA

New Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top