Still like the Sig 320? 20 Federal agents, police, private citizens file lawsuit

[sobo]

So if it's bad gun handling can we all just agree that P320 owners are just incompetent…..

While Glock owners are competent…..

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Sarcasm much?

Haha. It's all a joke. I had 4 P320s and a P365 when they were the rage. None of them ever went off. With that being said I didn't have confidence in carrying one appendix with a round in the chamber.

If I can't trust the gun (even if its purely personal reasons) then they serve no purpose to me. They have all been sold.

Mine have gone off thousands of times, just, intentionally.

 

[Kruel J]

So if it's bad gun handling can we all just agree that P320 owners are just incompetent…..

While Glock owners are competent…..

Hell, gangbangers run Glocks and they don't shoot themselves. They also don't hit their targets either.

Do certain brands attract certain competence levels?

There are countless Glocks in service all over the world and MANY more than Sig. I would expect lawsuits from LEOs in way larger numbers than Sig if it were a handling/manual safety thing.

 

[Kruel J]

I'm not trying to argue about Glock vs. Sig but logic would dictate that because Glock has WAY more pistols in service they would also have WAY more lawsuits and reports of guns going off......if it was just handling errors and not firearm specific.

 

[Member 53328]

There are countless Glocks in service all over the world and MANY more than Sig. I would expect lawsuits from LEOs in way larger numbers than Sig if it were a handling/manual safety thing.

Glock owners are just more competent. The money they saved went to training. Haha.

 

[Heyjoe]

Glock went through this with their "Glock Leg" period as cops transitioned from revolvers and manual safety pistols

Now Sig has given us Sauerpuss!

 

[Kruel J]

Glock owners are just more competent. The money they saved went to training. Haha.

Haha nah. I get it bro. 320 owners are probably upset they have a gun that has a chance of firing by itself. And rightfully so! It's gotta be frustrating. But blaming it all on mishandling is neither logical nor a safe stance to take.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

The problem Imo is lack of enough evidence and also it's human nature to blame the gun instead of their own mistake. Just not enough info Imo to conclude one way or the other.

I do believe sig puts out guns before they are ready. They have proven that. They also make great guns. I have a p938 single action hammer fired which is basically a micro 1911. I also have a p365x as my main edc. I also have a Glock that will someday be my truck gun and sometimes edc with a usw if the brace rule application ever goes through. I see a lot of guys like Jack carr carrying a p320 (he also carties a p365). I have no desire to carry a p320 personally as I already have a Glock 34 and other steel framed 9mms if I want a full size with higher capacity.

If there was definitive evidence such as in the case of the Taurus where they recalled about a million of them and you can see it firing on its own with your own eyes that woudl be different. But right now with so many p320s out there I don't think there is enough evidence one way or the other. I do understand the concern though. Edc is one gun where you want to have zero doubts about it whether the gun, the ammo, whatever. 2 cents

 

[DirectDrive]

Haha nah. I get it bro. 320 owners are probably upset they have a gun that has a chance of firing by itself. And rightfully so! It's gotta be frustrating. But blaming it all on mishandling is neither logical nor a safe stance to take.

That's BS.
If you're takin' that to court, you are not going to win.
No one, I repeat no one has been able to prove that the P320 will fire by itself.
No one has been able to duplicate that because try as they may, they can't.

You will have to go to Plan B

 

[solv3nt]

You will have to go to Plan B

Alec Baldwin?

 

[DirectDrive]

Alec Baldwin?

That's plan AB






Didn't know KJ was such a SIG hater ?

 

[DirectDrive]

More intel from the Gym Bag Gal incident. (7hrs ago)
Maybe this shouldn't have been released ?

I was just issued this as a duty weapon. Our armorer addressed this issue. In one instance in my state, the officer removed the weapon light and then kept the weapon in the same holster. Her gym bag strap pulled the grip forward as she bent over. The gun is loose in the holster because it's missing the light and something caught the trigger. Bang. I was issued the P320 RXP with the flat trigger. SIG says all issues with the P320 platform have been vetted. Its a shooter and so far, my agency hasn't had any issues. Can't speak for the P320 earlier "gens" . And like everyone else I've seen the videos. Some are head scratchers for sure.

 

[Kruel J]

That's plan AB






Didn't know KJ was such a SIG hater ?

Nah I don't hate them. I don't like products released to the public that aren't safe. I'm not trying to argue down 320 fans. Part of my job is safety and OSHA compliance. I tend to lean way more towards it than some. I've seen some pretty gruesome on-site injuries and they were ALL completely avoidable. Many involved unsafe/faulty equipment that everyone thought was fine.

 

[TheDude1]

Here's my .02 cents. The flaw, if you want to call it that, is the combination of the lack of a trigger safety such as a blade or a hinge, and a fairly light trigger pull with not a lot of take up. The P365 has the same style trigger with much more take up. My daily carry for the last year and a half has been a P320 AXG. I have previously carried a G19 and an M&P 9 Compact. This is by far my favorite. I'm not one to fidget with the gun and I tuck it already holstered as I always have. If I were at all worried about it going off, I would probably put in an Agency bladed trigger.

 

[WillametteWill]

But blaming it all on mishandling is neither logical nor a safe stance to take.

Beg to differ, it is completely logical based on the lack of good evidence otherwise. I took apart the four stories from early in this thread. The last one (on this page) was an officer getting out of a vehicle in a high stress situation along with a photo that apparently shows him holding the gun with his finger improperly indexed. The way he was getting out of the vehicle with his gun appeared quite reckless. Evidence would be getting the same gun to fire again without the trigger being pulled...which may be out there but I have not seen evidence of a SINGLE case.

I was just issued this as a duty weapon. Our armorer addressed this issue. In one instance in my state, the officer removed the weapon light and then kept the weapon in the same holster. Her gym bag strap pulled the grip forward as she bent over. The gun is loose in the holster because it's missing the light and something caught the trigger. Bang.

This is the type of post mortem that needs to be done with each of these. Are those who have had incidence going to be forthcoming with this information? No.

The flaw, if you want to call it that, is the combination of the lack of a trigger safety such as a blade or a hinge, and a fairly light trigger pull with not a lot of take up.

Okay I'll say it. A "safety" on a trigger is the most absolutely ridiculous concept in the history of ever. I understand the concept of their purpose, but they have NEVER been to stop a trigger actually getting pulled by a finger, part of a holster (noted above), jacket drawstring or other foreign object that gets in front of the trigger and either moves or the gun moves forward. They give too many shooters (not saying anyone here) a massive false sense of security. I've had lots of students show up with Glocks and other SF guns with "trigger safeties" and think their guns are safe from accidental trigger activation because the guy in the gun shop said they were. The lack of intellectual honesty about this subject by the general gun community is stunning to me.

Flame on. I know I'm in a small minority with this. I own SF guns with these but understand the limitations and do not carry them as EDC guns.

 

[TheDude1]

I agree that it doesn't stop it from being pulled by anything in front of the trigger, but it will stop it from some kind of friction at the side such as a shirt in the holster as in one of the videos out there. I believe that it is where most of the problems arise. As I stated the P365 doesn't get the same claims because of the longer take up, which gives it a little more wiggle room. It doesn't bother me not having the safety.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Haha nah. I get it bro. 320 owners are probably upset they have a gun that has a chance of firing by itself. And rightfully so! It's gotta be frustrating. But blaming it all on mishandling is neither logical nor a safe stance to take.

In the 90s you heard this same stuff about Glocks. Or at least I did, constantly. Wasn't true of the Glocks either.

 

[DirectDrive]

Haha nah. I get it bro. 320 owners are probably upset they have a gun that has a chance of firing by itself. And rightfully so! It's gotta be frustrating. But blaming it all on mishandling is neither logical nor a safe stance to take.

In the 90s you heard this same stuff about Glocks. Or at least I did, constantly. Wasn't true of the Glocks either.

The other thing was there was no internet, to speak of. No way for information to spread instantaneously all over the world. Glock was able to stifle most of the reports by handling them out of court, and or with the individuals. The Glock would in fact fire if they were dropped in their original design. When this was found out during Gov testing, it didn't make it out to the public until the problem was fixed. By then, no one really paid much attention. Again information didn't travel that fast.

When the 320 drop fire issues was discovered, everyone in the world knew about it in a few days. The problem was fixed, but it was perpetuated online for months. Because the information was so wide spread, it wasn't easily forgotten.
Since the 320 was now making inroads into LE, anytime anyone had an ND, they could easily blame it on the pistol because of the previous issue. Anyone who had an ND had a built in excuse as to why it happened.

SIG has been winning all of these lawsuits and we'll see how this latest one goes.
IMHO, the plaintiff's attorneys will not be able to prove that the P320 will go off un- commanded.

 

[Kruel J]

The other thing was there was no internet, to speak of. No way for information to spread instantaneously all over the world. Glock was able to stifle most of the reports by handling them out of court, and or with the individuals. The Glock would in fact fire if they were dropped in their original design. When this was found out during Gov testing, it didn't make it out to the public until the problem was fixed. By then, no one really paid much attention. Again information didn't travel that fast.

When the 320 drop fire issues was discovered, everyone in the world knew about it in a few days. The problem was fixed, but it was perpetuated online for months. Because the information was so wide spread, it wasn't easily forgotten.
Since the 320 was now making inroads into LE, anytime anyone had an ND, they could easily blame it on the pistol because of the previous issue. Anyone who had an ND had a built in excuse as to why it happened.

SIG has been winning all of these lawsuits and we'll see how this latest one goes.
IMHO, the plaintiff's attorneys will not be able to prove that the P320 will go off un- commanded.

Big difference is "it didn't make it out to the public until the problem was fixed". Sig could take a lesson here.

 

[DirectDrive]

Big difference is "it didn't make it out to the public until the problem was fixed". Sig could take a lesson here.

The Internet cannot keep its mouth shut.