Still like the Sig 320? 20 Federal agents, police, private citizens file lawsuit

[Kruel J]

If you guys think the 100 people in the lawsuit, mainly LE and other professionals, are all full of it and at fault that's fine. I don't see any other manufacturer with these claims or a lawsuit of this size.

I hope it at least keeps things in perspective. I mean if there were reports like this about my favorite gun/manufacturer I'd probably be a little defensive too but I'd sure want to know about it and consider my options. Shooting down every incident along with the participants in the lawsuit as operator error seems short sighted and highly improbable. To me anyway.

 

[DirectDrive]

If you guys think the 100 people in the lawsuit, mainly LE and other professionals, are all full of it and at fault that's fine. I don't see any other manufacturer with these claims or a lawsuit of this size.

I hope it at least keeps things in perspective. I mean if there were reports like this about my favorite gun/manufacturer I'd probably be a little defensive too but I'd sure want to know about it and consider my options. Shooting down every incident along with the participants in the lawsuit as operator error seems short sighted and highly improbable. To me anyway.

After reading what cops in leadership positions say about how poorly many fellow cops handle firearms, the label "highly trained professionals" does not impress, whatsoever.
In fact, that language comes from the SMB Attorneys lawsuit if I'm not mistaken.

The plaintiffs have a steep hill to climb.
From the sound of their lawsuit, they are still trying to argue that the firearm goes off un-commanded.
The incidents are almost always holster-related, one way or another.
Why doesn't the firearm go off when it's sitting on a table or in a safe ?
This ^^^ has not been proven to date and I don't see it happening.

Many depts, racegunners and private individuals are using the P320 with no issue, why is that ?
That ^^^ will be tough for them to overcome.
With known data it's estimated that there are currently up to 2 million P320's in the wild.

It's crystal clear to me that some individuals should not be using a pistol without a manual safety.
And even that is no guarantee with some individuals.

We shall see.
Maybe SMB Attorneys will find an angle to outsmart the SIG attorneys ?
Their lawsuit language sounds weak and inaccurate in places.

 

[Kruel J]

There are 20+ million Glocks out there with no manual safety.

I'm honestly not trying to pump up Glocks, but they are the only direct competitor to the 320 (for LEO/Military) and facts are facts that they don't have any problems or lawsuits like this. So to blame it on the lack of a manual safety is pretty thin.

That said, @DirectDrive you make some compelling arguments as well. Funny thing, a 320 XFive has been on my list for a while. Just not as a carry gun.

 

[DirectDrive]

There are 20+ million Glocks out there with no manual safety.[/IMG]

Technically true, but it does have the trigger shoe blade safety.
And for police duty, Glock has the stiffer NY1 and NY2 triggers.

I'm honestly not trying to pump up Glocks, but they are the only direct competitor to the 320 (for LEO/Military) and facts are facts that they don't have any problems or lawsuits like this. So to blame it on the lack of a manual safety is pretty thin.

[/QUOTE]
I think just the opposite.
I think it's the Number 1 reason why these ND's happen.
It's that combined with a user that is not paying attention.
Maybe SIG could have offered a police version or a manual safety option ?

That said, @DirectDrive you make some compelling arguments as well. Funny thing, a 320 XFive has been on my list for a while. Just not as a carry gun.

[/QUOTE]
I have a "parts-built" X-Five that is my favorite striker fired pistol to shoot.
I've had my grubby fingers on every single teeny part that makes it go boom.
Best striker trigger that I've pulled to date.

 

[raftman]

There are 20+ million Glocks out there with no manual safety.

I'm honestly not trying to pump up Glocks, but they are the only direct competitor to the 320 (for LEO/Military) and facts are facts that they don't have any problems or lawsuits like this. So to blame it on the lack of a manual safety is pretty thin.

…

What if the magic trigger safety is what makes the difference?

 

[Wombat of Doom]

There are 20+ million Glocks out there with no manual safety.

I'm honestly not trying to pump up Glocks, but they are the only direct competitor to the 320 (for LEO/Military) and facts are facts that they don't have any problems or lawsuits like this. So to blame it on the lack of a manual safety is pretty thin.

That said, @DirectDrive you make some compelling arguments as well. Funny thing, a 320 XFive has been on my list for a while. Just not as a carry gun.

And there are many examples of ND by LEO on youtube with a Glock, just like what is being discussed here. The 320 has a much nicer trigger and I can shoot mine better than a Glock, even with a zev trigger.

 

[Kruel J]

What if the magic trigger safety is what makes the difference?

Completely plausible.

 

[DirectDrive]

And there are many examples of ND by LEO on youtube with a Glock, just like what is being discussed here. The 320 has a much nicer trigger and I can shoot mine better than a Glock, even with a zev trigger.

Yep, I keep forgetting that Glock went through the same thing.
P320 just happens to be "Flavor of the Month" at the ambulance-chaser law firms.

 

[Member 53328]

Circle jerk.

 

[titsonritz]

This is the sort of thread topic that should probably be tabled until the litigation is complete.

Pretty confident, that since the court proceedings have been ongoing for a while, and nothing yet has been leaked, that SIG will skate on this one.

"20 highly trained federal agents, police and civilians..." Of course, let's not forget about the 74-year-old Air Force vet (does the AF even have pistols? Wouldn't the 1911 or Model 15 have been his thing?), he must have been "highly trained" as well.

If you guys think the 100 people in the lawsuit, mainly LE and other professionals, are all full of it and at fault that's fine. I don't see any other manufacturer with these claims or a lawsuit of this size.

I hope it at least keeps things in perspective. I mean if there were reports like this about my favorite gun/manufacturer I'd probably be a little defensive too but I'd sure want to know about it and consider my options. Shooting down every incident along with the participants in the lawsuit as operator error seems short sighted and highly improbable. To me anyway.

It has been my experience run of the mill police and military personal are anything but "professional" at gun handling and plenty are down right incompetent. It always crack me up when people assume because someone was in the military or LE they automatically are a whiz behind a gun. Some are top notch, many are not, fact.

 

[Kruel J]

It has been my experience run of the mill police and military personal are anything but "professional" at gun handling and plenty are down right incompetent. It always crack me up when people assume because someone was in the military or LE they automatically are a whiz behind a gun. Some are top notch, many are not, fact.

Agreed. Maybe every one of them in the lawsuit is a goofball.

 

[titsonritz]

Agreed. Maybe every one of them in the lawsuit is a goofball.

or related to Tex Grebner.

 

[DirectDrive]

Agreed. Maybe every one of them in the lawsuit is a goofball.

Hmmm........20 out of 2 million
Those are pretty good odds.

 

[Kruel J]

If it hadn't been prone to going bang when dropped, maybe this wouldn't get so much attention. But let's face it, the 320 started off rocky and is still facing criticism 9 years after its release.

I don't hate Sig, I promise. I could link more stories and videos than just the 20 in the lawsuit but nah...won't do any good anyway.

 

[DirectDrive]

If it hadn't been prone to going bang when dropped, maybe this wouldn't get so much attention. But let's face it, the 320 started off rocky and is still facing criticism 9 years after its release.

[/QUOTE]
True, even though it's fixed it left a scar.

I don't hate Sig, I promise. I could link more stories and videos than just the 20 in the lawsuit but nah...won't do any good anyway.

More stories and videos could be posted and more stories and videos could be debunked.
There's that one little thing though, they can't prove that the pistol goes off by itself.
And that's why they are not winning the lawsuits.

 

[DirectDrive]

There are 20+ million Glocks out there with no manual safety.

I'm honestly not trying to pump up Glocks, but they are the only direct competitor to the 320 (for LEO/Military) and facts are facts that they don't have any problems or lawsuits like this. So to blame it on the lack of a manual safety is pretty thin.

That said, @DirectDrive you make some compelling arguments as well. Funny thing, a 320 XFive has been on my list for a while. Just not as a carry gun.

Mag up before the Iron Curtain comes down.
The ideal mag for the X-Five with the magwell funnel is the 21rd.
17's work if they have a Legion or Gray Guns type baseplate.

ACT Mag #3209 17rd is the schizzle with a baseplate change if using the magwell funnel.
These have the nicest finish of all the mags.

A plain-Jane Full Size + X-Five grip module + 1911 style RSA can make into a nice "X-Five-ish"

 

[spookshack]

I'll take my chances with the 320.
From several years ago. I wonder how many are out there that have yet to be replaced?

Biggest air bag recall in U.S. history gets massively bigger

NHTSA: Up to 69 million Takata air bag inflators are now considered a safety risk to American motorists

www.cbsnews.com

 

[spookshack]

Mag up before the Iron Curtain comes down.
The ideal mag for the X-Five with the magwell funnel is the 21rd.
17's work if they have a Legion or Gray Guns type baseplate.

ACT Mag #3209 17rd is schizzle with a baseplate change if using the magwell funnel.
These have the nicest finish of all the mags.

A plain-Jane Full Size + X-Five grip module + 1911 style RSA can make into an "X-Five-ish"

I have several of the ACT 17rd mags. Very impressed this far! I removed the magwell from my X5 as I don't need it for speed steel matches and that is all I use it for. The ACT mags have been awesome.

 

[Kruel J]

Mag up before the Iron Curtain comes down.
The ideal mag for the X-Five with the magwell funnel is the 21rd.
17's work if they have a Legion or Gray Guns type baseplate.

ACT Mag #3209 17rd is the schizzle with a baseplate change if using the magwell funnel.
These have the nicest finish of all the mags.

A plain-Jane Full Size + X-Five grip module + 1911 style RSA can make into a nice "X-Five-ish"

Man I started buying mags years before all this mess. Not for a Sig but for my other firearms. I've got more mags than I will likely ever need.
Honestly, I think the main reason I haven't grabbed an XFive is because of this. I am heavily invested in other platforms.

Oh maybe I already said but I've owned a P938 and a P226. Both fine firearms.

 

[DirectDrive]

Man I started buying mags years before all this mess. Not for a Sig but for my other firearms. I've got more mags than I will likely ever need.
Honestly, I think the main reason I haven't grabbed an XFive is because of this. I am heavily invested in other platforms.

Oh maybe I already said but I've owned a P938 and a P226. Both fine firearms.

The P320 is safe as long as you're not a cop.