Other State Stand your ground shooting Florida

[Dirty Cary]

Florida parking lot shooting raises questions about state's "stand your ground" law

Read More

 

[Bones2586]

There will be some fallout and more heated discussions surrounding this topic, that's for sure. Majority of the political ads supporting candidates for various offices (both state and federal) are already using the big three in Florida (firearms, health/social programs, and teacher salaries) as campaign platforms, can't get away from it on the TV or radio. Won't be long before we see this particular subject being discussed as well...

I'll bet a dolla!

 

[soberups]

My view on this will not be popular, but the guy who pulled the trigger was in the wrong.
Yes he got pushed to the ground. But the video shows that he once he drew his weapon the assailant retreated, was turning away, had nothing in his hands, and was too far away to kick him.
Drawing and pointing the gun was appropriate. Pulling the trigger was not.
I have also read reports that the guy who pulled the trigger had previously harrassed people at that store, and was yelling at and verbally abusing the woman in the car for parking in a handicap spot, which is not appropriate behavior for someone who has chosen to carry concealed.
He will almost certainly be exonerated in a legal sense, but that does not change the fact that he was at least partially in the wrong and his choices are an example of what not to do when carrying concealed.

 

[rscinsc]

soberups....I would agree with you.
I can think of no NRA or other Firearms instructor who would teach: if pushed down, pull your gun and shoot. Unless FL is different the standard is "fear for our life"...not "fear my a_s will hurt from the pavement".
If I had to guess, I would say there are some issues between the Sheriff and the DA...and the Sheriff wants to put this on the DA (or the Sheriff is making a political statement). I expect in the end this will go to a Grand Jury and the Judge will decide to charge, even with Stand Your Ground.

To those of us in Oregon....do not try this here, because you will find yourself in Jail....awaiting a trail you probably will not win.

 

[CombatMechanic]

My view on this will not be popular, but the guy who pulled the trigger was in the wrong.
Yes he got pushed to the ground. But the video shows that he once he drew his weapon the assailant retreated, was turning away, had nothing in his hands, and was too far away to kick him.
Drawing and pointing the gun was appropriate. Pulling the trigger was not.
I have also read reports that the guy who pulled the trigger had previously harrassed people at that store, and was yelling at and verbally abusing the woman in the car for parking in a handicap spot, which is not appropriate behavior for someone who has chosen to carry concealed.
He will almost certainly be exonerated in a legal sense, but that does not change the fact that he was at least partially in the wrong and his choices are an example of what not to do when carrying concealed.

Guy shouldn't have got physical, he got what he had coming.

 

[nwslopoke]

Guy shouldn't have got physical, he got what he had coming.

Don't do this on the west cost. Many here talk about being the alpha dog and the dead guy was standing up for his girlfriend / wife. He went too far but not so far he should be dead. The shooter was looking for a problem to solve and he found it.

 

[CombatMechanic]

Don't do this on the west cost. Many here talk about being the alpha dog and the dead guy was standing up for his girlfriend / wife. He went too far but not so far he should be dead. The shooter was looking for a problem to solve and he found it.

I ain't worried about it. You put hands on me for no good reason, and I'm in a compromised position because of it you'll probably end up dead too.

 

[Black Dog]

The guy and gal started the whole thing with their ATTITUDE fudge the Handy Cap sign. I'll only be a minute. When confronted she didn't move she got out and argued. Boy friend came out Bigger Younger lots of ATTITUDE and nailed the guy. Should he have shot him NO! Buy even I would have been TEMPTED. People need to control their TEMPERS and ATTITUDES.

 

[CombatMechanic]

The guy and gal started the whole thing with their ATTITUDE fudge the Handy Cap sign. I'll only be a minute. When confronted she didn't move she got out and argued. Boy friend came out Bigger Younger lots of ATTITUDE and nailed the guy. Should he have shot him NO! Buy even I would have been TEMPTED. People need to control their TEMPERS and ATTITUDES.

He was totally in the right to shoot him. He was on the ground and at a heavy disadvantage for further attacks that could have easily been deadly. Man had no clue other then the fact the man was willing to get physical and escalation over words. I'd be worried what he'd do next. Don't start what you can't finish.

 

[CLT65]

My view on this will not be popular, but the guy who pulled the trigger was in the wrong.
Yes he got pushed to the ground. But the video shows that he once he drew his weapon the assailant retreated, was turning away, had nothing in his hands, and was too far away to kick him.
Drawing and pointing the gun was appropriate. Pulling the trigger was not.
I have also read reports that the guy who pulled the trigger had previously harrassed people at that store, and was yelling at and verbally abusing the woman in the car for parking in a handicap spot, which is not appropriate behavior for someone who has chosen to carry concealed.
He will almost certainly be exonerated in a legal sense, but that does not change the fact that he was at least partially in the wrong and his choices are an example of what not to do when carrying concealed.

Not being there to see exactly what happened, I can't pass judgement on anyone, but from the video it sure looks like he was a bit quick on the trigger. I don't even see where "Stand Your Ground" is terribly relevant here. Was he in imminent fear for his life? I don't know. Yes, he was assaulted by a hotheaded bully, but it sure looks to me like there was no imminent danger at the moment the shot was fired.

What got me about the video was the defense of the attacker: "He was just trying to defend his woman". BS. He was PO'd at a stranger for mouthing off at his woman for illegal parking, and decided to commit bodily assault over it.

Lots of stupid here:
1. Stupid to park in a handicap spot when you're not handicapped. Leave those for people who need them. Simple respect- don't be a jerk.
2. Stupid and dangerous to call out a stranger for their parking. Let the police give them a ticket. You never know when someone has a short fuse, like this guy.
3. Stupid and criminal to assault someone because they "offended your woman". The attacker should have been arrested and spent a little time in jail.
4. Really stupid to pull the trigger when the attacker is backing away. Keep the gun on him and call the police to report the assault, but don't blow him away because you're mad that he pushed you down.

Again, that's just my take from watching a grainy silent video. I don't claim to be any kind of legal expert or fully understand all the particulars of what happened.

 

[soberups]

Guy shouldn't have got physical, he got what he had coming.

Should the guy have gotten physical? No.
Is it the role of civilian concealed carriers to dispense justice and make sure that bullies get "what they had coming"? Also no.
Lethal force is only justified to prevent death or serious bodily harm to ones self or to another. Watch the video. The bully saw the gun, he immediately retreated and began to turn away. He was not armed and well out of range to deliver a kick. The man on the ground was no longer in imminent danger. Drawing his gun was justified. Pulling the trigger after the threat was neutralized was not.

 

[CombatMechanic]

Should the guy have gotten physical? No.
Is it the role of civilian concealed carriers to dispense justice and make sure that bullies get "what they had coming"? Also no.
Lethal force is only justified to prevent death or serious bodily harm to ones self or to another. Watch the video. The bully saw the gun, he immediately retreated and began to turn away. He was not armed and well out of range to deliver a kick. The man on the ground was no longer in imminent danger. Drawing his gun was justified. Pulling the trigger after the threat was neutralized was not.

by The law he only has to feel his life is threatened, how he feel is subjective. And if he's on the ground and a man just got physical over words not unreasonable to think he'll go farther.

 

[Fast Eddie]

He was totally in the right to shoot him. He was on the ground and at a heavy disadvantage for further attacks that could have easily been deadly. Man had no clue other then the fact the man was willing to get physical and escalation over words. I'd be worried what he'd do next. Don't start what you can't finish.

I don't know about totally in the right, but I wouldn't vote to convict the guy in a jury trial, based on what I saw there. As for stand your ground, he had nowhere to go, to me, it's not even part of the equation. Between draw time and your OODA loop, after being shoved down, the guy really didn't have any time to make any evaluations beyond, am I in fear for my life? Was he in fear for his life or health? I guarantee you he was.

I also agree that you would end up wearing stripes in the northeast and on the west coast, but you never know...the elderly and disabled sometimes get some extra leniency.

Remember that old codger that back shot that gal that robbed him with her boyfriend? She was out of the house and almost off the property when he gunned her down. That was in Southern California. I thought they were going to prosecute him for sure.

I thought Zimmerman should have been convicted. He wasn't. If you listen to the 911 call he made, you start to realize how totally avoidable some of these atlercatons that turn deadly are.

If it came out that the guy who is packing, takes it upon himself to be the worlds hall monitor, like Zimmerman did, he should go to jail.

As for the altercation, my takeaway.....Never miss a good opportunity to keep your mouth shut.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Just because the sheriff says he doesn't believe that he can arrest the shooter doesn't mean that the DA won't end up charging him

 

[Ura-Ki]

Hard to really see what is happening in the video, and with no audio, it's impossable to say what if any thing additional happend that we are not aware of. My gut says this was excessive use of force, once the hot head sees the gun he backs off, but does he keep running his mouth? Is he holding a weapon or making threatening moves that we don't see?
We also don't know if hot head used a weapon on the "Victim" or not, dosnt look that way, but a knife or other might be hard to see. Bottom line, i think the shooter acted excessively, but, there may be factors involved that we don't know, or cannot see/hear, so I'm gonna have to wait and see what turns up!
Lots of stupid here, arrogance in parking illegally and then popping off when called out on it, Alfa male ego cannot back down when he is spun up and showing his girl how manly and tough he is, shooter guy keeps pushing because he has extra courage tucked in his belt, and when things go the way they always go with two tough guys, words are useless and it's time for physical! Both had it comming, but the Gun took the equality out and ramped things up to lethal, needlessly I'm my view!

 

[bbbass]

Guy shouldn't have got physical, he got what he had coming.

Disagree. If you have that attitude when you carry, you shouldn't be.

 

[bbbass]

He was totally in the right to shoot him. He was on the ground and at a heavy disadvantage for further attacks that could have easily been deadly. Man had no clue other then the fact the man was willing to get physical and escalation over words. I'd be worried what he'd do next. Don't start what you can't finish.

Again, I disagree with your position and worry about your attitude.

What I saw, one man on the ground and the other not doing anything but standing there. The fight had stopped at that point... use of force not justified. Now if the guy came at the dude on the ground again, diff story considering the force differential of age and size.

 

[EPS]

This was a bad shoot .
If the guy had advance on him when he was on the ground I would say good shoot .
But he pushed him down and started to walk away.
Bad shoot.
There is also reporting that this guy has been confronting people at this store a few times .
Kinda asking for a fight

 

[CombatMechanic]

Again, I disagree with your position and worry about your attitude.

What I saw, one man on the ground and the other not doing anything but standing there. The fight had stopped at that point... use of force not justified. Now if the guy came at the dude on the ground again, diff story considering the force differential of age and size.

Was he? He didn't get a chance as I sure as hell won't be waiting to see if a man that's just physically assisted me and had an advantage over my physical state to see if he's gonna turn and pull a weapon first. He made the first move, and he lost his life for playing tough.

 

[EPS]

If you carry a gun the last thing you should be doing is looking for a FIGHT .
Because every fight is a gun fight.
And you brought the gun.
So now your in a fight for your life and other people around you