Speaking of Ammo Gouging, what about.....?

[awshoot]

Also, I think this video has useful information with respect to mix at home priming compound:

 

[Certaindeaf]

I guess it depends on your definition of short.. I have primers I personally purchased new 30 years ago and they all go bang... I have primers I purchased 20, 15 , 10 and 3 months ago ... All seem to go bang.

This is not the first time I've heard people say something similar, but it has not mirrored my actual observations and experience.

The newer lead free primers have a shelf life of around 7 years. No thanks.

 

[A2theK]

The adapt and overcome award goes to awshoot.

Awshoots house is pictured in the center of the image below.

 

[awshoot]

Here's some data on a Federal Match SPP (GM100M) which I disassembled (it hurts so much right now). Notably, I've seen diagrams of primers which indicate a foil/paper sealant over the compound and under the anvil (i.e., between them). The Federal primer had no such paper liner.

Weights (*):
Whole complete primer: 3.44 gn (weighed as a whole prior to disassembly)
Anvil: 0.92 gn
Cup: 2.16 gn
Compound: 0.36 gn
sum: 3.44 gn

(*) I did not completely clean all material from the anvil and cup, some material remained on the paper onto which I scraped the compound, so the anvil and the cup are ever so slightly heavier than reality, and the compound amount ever so slightly less than reality.

 

[gmerkt]

I see no mention of "Haz-Mat" fees? Should Gun Broker care about facilitating illegal shipment of explosives through the mail? They probably have wording somewhere that relieves them of responsibilty. It'd be something to see these guys get stuck with their 1000s of primers and be forced to sell them only locally

Upon receiving my order, nothing on the pkg showed any if the Hazmat stickers. I went to great lengths to talk to her about via text, and there was no doubt in my mind she knew about Hazmat, and was very knowledgeable on the subject. She even said she was Hazmat certified.

I've mentioned this here before. Even before the Covid thing, you could find vendors on Gunbroker who advertised shipment of ammo by US Postal Service Priority Mail which is verboten. Now, it's as you guys say, legions of people on GB selling primers, with most of the amounts quoted for shipping, you know they aren't doing in under Hazmat rules.

MONEY is the reason. The immediate benefit is lower shipping cost. Some buyers might not go for 1,000 primers, plus HAZMAT fee, plus actual ground shipping. Or maybe the illegal shippers are charging $20, then pocketing the difference. I have noted that most specify ground shipment only, which suggests that they are aware of HAZMAT requirements.

Bigger reason, basic HAZMAT training costs approx. $400 and takes two full days of training. It can be done online but you still have to pay and put in the hours to get certified.

Speaking of money, HAZMAT violations are punishable as high as $82,000 per day, per violation. That maximum figure is probably for big chemical companies, it would be difficult to imagine a fine that high for someone shipping occasional quantities of primers illegally. Still, you don't want to be the guy (or gal) who finds out.

The components for priming compound when separated are inert and shippable:

I couldn't help but note the company shown in this linked advertisement. I've bought their kit for Berdan primer conversion. Which worked well enough. BUT: They are trying to be untouchable. Which is impossible when selling online. But they are not easy to communicate with. Even the little set that I bought from them, the instructions were completely vague as to their being the source.

 

[gmerkt]

I'm not interested in primers at anything like $150 to $200 per brick. To me, that's just beyond reason. I'll wait and see what happens. I have enough ammo and primers to get by for a long time. Especially at age-restricted rates of consumption. Shortages and resulting high prices tend eventually to respond to natural economic forces. Meaning, supplies from Europe and Asia might ride to the rescue. They like to make money too. There is the worry of a political nature, meaning possible tighter administrative restrictions being placed on items deemed hazardous.

One thing I've wondered. We've read that due to the ammo shortage, many shooters have started reloading for the first time. I'm looking beyond that, wondering if some reloaders will get frustrated and give up the practice if they cannot get a supply of primers.

 

[arakboss]

I'm not interested in primers at anything like $150 to $200 per brick. To me, that's just beyond reason. I'll wait and see what happens. I have enough ammo and primers to get by for a long time. Especially at age-restricted rates of consumption. Shortages and resulting high prices tend eventually to respond to natural economic forces. Meaning, supplies from Europe and Asia might ride to the rescue. They like to make money too. There is the worry of a political nature, meaning possible tighter administrative restrictions being placed on items deemed hazardous.

One thing I've wondered. We've read that due to the ammo shortage, many shooters have started reloading for the first time. I'm looking beyond that, wondering if some reloaders will get frustrated and give up the practice if they cannot get a supply of primers.

I may trying unloading some more of my primer stash by the sleeve to lessen the risk of frustrated newbie reloaders. For a sum of course.

 

[gmerkt]

Just now I was looking at powder for sale on Gunbroker. As just one example, there is a seller advertising an 8 pound jug of H110, shipping $45 by USPS Priority Mail.

 

[03A3Sporter]

The newer lead free primers have a shelf life of around 7 years. No thanks.

To my knowledge the Federal and Winchester Primers most folks are buying are not lead free , nor do the major ammunition companies use Lead Free Primers .. Having said that the one time I purchased lead free primers to try them IIRC they were the Fort Smith Lead free primers , the manufacturer stated they have a 20 year shelf life. I can't say that 20 years is too short a shelf life . Granted I am still using inherited 50 plus year old pistol primers .

I have said this before and stand by the statement now, be worried about your powder supply than your primers nitro cellulose powders do break down. It is one of the reasons I have started shooting my stash of M2 Ball , factually the last time I went to the range out of 50 rounds fired I had 5 duds or 10% . I think I have 3 bandoleers left and a few boxes to go through before I am done . After which I will reload the cases and repack .

 

[Certaindeaf]

To my knowledge the Federal and Winchester Primers most folks are buying are not lead free , nor do the major ammunition companies use Lead Free Primers .. Having said that the one time I purchased lead free primers to try them IIRC they were the Fort Smith Lead free primers , the manufacturer stated they have a 20 year shelf life. I can't say that 20 years is too short a shelf life . Granted I am still using inherited 50 plus year old pistol primers .

I have said this before and stand by the statement now, be worried about your powder supply than your primers nitro cellulose powders do break down. It is one of the reasons I have started shooting my stash of M2 Ball , factually the last time I went to the range out of 50 rounds fired I had 5 duds or 10% . I think I have 3 bandoleers left and a few boxes to go through before I am done . After which I will reload the cases and repack .

yea no thanks

 

[Beekeeping1341]

I bought some powder from a seller on GB. She had a lot of stuff for sale and feedback was in the 4 digits (all positive). I didn't hesitate to buy from her.

Upon receiving my order, nothing on the pkg showed any if the Hazmat stickers. I went to great lengths to talk to her about via text, and there was no doubt in my mind she knew about Hazmat, and was very knowledgeable on the subject. She even said she was Hazmat certified. That didn't explain why she sent the pkg in regular shipment with no indication of the Hazmat items therein. I called her on her BS.

I also gave her first negative feedback rating, too. She not only puts herself at risk, but she puts me at risk of a massive headache with the authorities should something happen during shipment.

Are you grateful to have the primers or not?

 

[gmerkt]

I've been thinking, there are natural market forces that will come into play at some point. Online sources that list primers for sale (but don't have any to sell) usually still show price. I've noticed that the prices are creeping upward, away from the $30 average where they were for some time. After all, the manufacturers and distributors can't be unaware of the ridiculous high prices and Gunbroker insanity going on with primers. It's pretty simple, when something in demand gets scarce, prices go up as we've seen in the secondary market. So it won't surprise me that some time in the future, even with a modest return of supply, shelf prices will be significantly higher than the $30 average of the recent past. In turn, this may tend to discourage demand as people are less willing to pay a higher "normal" price. It won't reduce legitimate demand but might cut back on hoarding or private profiteering. Only the future will tell.

I guess another way to put it is this. Why would manufacturers continue to sell something that flies out the door all day long at $30, when it's been demonstrated that people are willing to pay a lot more for it? It would be easy enough for them to provide a justification. "We are having to pay overtime to make so many of these." Or increased materials costs. Shipping costs. Plant up-dating. Some of which may even be true, in part anyway.

 

[gmerkt]

I have said this before and stand by the statement now, be worried about your powder supply than your primers nitro cellulose powders do break down.

There may be something to this. A while back, out of caution I replaced a lot of my IMR 4895 with BL-C(2), with the theory being that ball powders have a longer life than stick powders.

 

[HighlandLofts]

If you didn't buy primers whey they were availabe now you have to pay the piper.

With any twist of life people freak out and hoard.
Go to any store tomorrow and try to find toilet paper or paper towels.


bubblegum wipes? All of them.

 

[jimmeh]

Are you grateful to have the primers or not?

I'm grateful to have primers, yes. But not because of her. She didn't sell me primers!

Are you saying I should be grateful for the powder regardless of it being sent to me illegally? That doesn't seem right to me. But if it works for you, to each their own.

 

[jimmeh]

whilst it would be a massive headache- any and all liability would be on her. Even if she had emails from you begging her to NOT put stickers on, it's her responsibility as the shipper to package it appropriately .

Although I understand and agree, I'm sure if there was a very serious accident during shipment, the authorities would be visiting me and would ask to investigate and review what inventory of powder I currently have.

I know I wouldn't need to show them anything, but having to tell them "no" opens the door to many problems that I'd rather not have to deal with.

I remember having been witness to a crime before. I was in no way, shape or form involved other than being witness to it, and my day was tied up for 3 hours filling out reports, and various other things. If the powder blew up, or was an accelerant and accessory to a big fire, I'm sure the authorites would be paying me a visit and tie me up for at least a few hours. I may be asked to give them access to my gunbroker.com acct, access to what I have in my garage, asked what kinds of powder I have and provide proof of where I got every single one of them, etc.

But according to some, I should be "grateful" for the [powder] I recvd. *roll eyes*