Sorry AR fans, the AK is the true Evil Black Rifle

[DirectDrive]

LOL
It's a different link.

 

[aksu747]

I love AKs. I also love ARs but if it came down to it, id grab an AK before an AR.

This but I would add that I'd take an AK or an SKS over an AR,they have cheaper and larger caliber ammo as well.
I had an SKS that used to be my fathers that had countless thousands of steel cased rounds put through it by me and him,I never saw it malfunction once. The last time I shot it I asked him when he last cleaned it, he told me he hadn't cleaned it yet from the last couple of times we went shooting,yet when we shot it it fired just as accurately and reliably as it ever had.
I've not seen any gun neglected as much,yet function perfectly every time,but then again I haven't put even a fraction of the amount of ammo we put through that gun through any other gun. I think the SKS is highly underrated for its reliability,maybe they aren't all this good but my fathers Norinco SKS was unstoppable. We only ever used stripper clips in it though,you can get really fast with those with some practice.

 

[Heyjoe]

Nothing 'merican bout this.

 

[EPS]

The funny thing is most everyone posting stuff on here has both a AR AND AK LOL I will use witch ever one is available at the time I need it

 

[EPS]

Aloha snack bar . My AK blew up I'm going to eat a pork corn dog at the snack bar lol something like that I can't remember

 

[IronMonster]

You were leaving the impression that a random buyer will get 1 MOA or better off the rack from a random and cheap AR, and that's just not going to be true in the world of large numbers. If it were, the DOD would be able to get that kind of accuracy guarantee out of Colt and FN, but they don't and they won't.

I bet that has more to do with the ammo the DOD tests with than the rifles. I have a $300 AR that will out shoot just about any $800 AK and out of the 100 or so AR's I have owned I have never had one that was the 4-6 MOA rifle you expect of a cheap AK with steel case ammo.

 

[The Heretic]

My issue with AK's is accuracy. (I don't like rough edges either) They are terrible. If you measure the quality of a rifle by a decent caliber (7.62X39 is a good sporting caliber) or that it always goes boom and makes smoke they are fine.......but let's go to the range. Even a poor quality AR will shoot 1 inch groups. I have a seemingly well built Yugoslavian SKS that is very solid and fun to shoot. If it shoots a 6" group it is a good day. The Chinese versions I have owned are worse.....many much worse. I have much more training than most and have never had the spray and prey mentality......that is best suited to the Kalashnikov designs. I like the 7.62X39 caliber a lot and had to buy a CZ 527 just to prove the caliber is accurate. I even owned a very expensive Valmet built AK in 5.56 cal.....it wouldn't hit the side of a barn either.

Both the military and the NRA have done tests on off the shelf M16s and found they were at best 2 MOA guns with the same quality ammo shot in an AK.

Sure an AR has more potential for precision than any AK ever will, but that generally requires picking good quality components and putting them together right. Not something that the low end production guns typically are.

The point is moot to me; I want something that is robust, durable and reliable for a self-defense rifle, and if I can hit my target with it, I don't care if the group around center of mass is 2 inches or 4 inches, it will probably be just as lethal. What I care about is that the projectile comes out of the end of the barrel every time I pull that trigger.

FWIW - when I was younger (i.e., at least 20 years ago) I attended a private group shoot out in e. WA state where we could shoot at a distance. Off-hand standing with cheap surplus ammo, I was able to hit a man sized target at 500 meters about 50% of the time with my AK of choice.

Today I am sure I could not do as well, but where I live there just will not be any targets at 500 meters for me to hit if SHTF.

 

[EPS]

Going to enjoy some black rifle coffee right now lol

 

[IronMonster]

Now I wanna go shoot my AK, with my AR. I bet at 50 yards I could put a 5.56 round down the 7.62 bore of an AK?

 

[Koda]

I actually feel challenged now to find out for myself what an AK can do for accuracy. All things being equal this will have to be an iron sight only experiment since I don't want to buy optics for the AK as I like the simplicity of them (I dont think the AK was really ever 'meant' to have an optic... )
here is the last target sample I played with after adjusting the sight and then plinking around in a prone position freehand at 100yds until I homed in on a nice 3 rounds in a row on the bullseye. Those 3 rds held steady could be luck but I wonder what it will do in a led sled from a bench....

 

[IronMonster]

I own half a dozen AK's and have shot them quite a lot. I cant say that I have ever shot quality ammo in one though. My experience has been 4-6 MOA is reasonable to expect with steel case ammo and a sub $800 AK.

I can tell you that the same quality ammo (steel case Russian stuff) will shoot 2-3 MOA out of a $350 AR.

 

[Koda]

I own half a dozen AK's and have shot them quite a lot. I cant say that I have ever shot quality ammo in one though. My experience has been 4-6 MOA is reasonable to expect with steel case ammo and a sub $800 AK.

I can tell you that the same quality ammo (steel case Russian stuff) will shoot 2-3 MOA out of a $350 AR.

both with iron sights?

 

[Wombat of Doom]

My Molot Vepr is quite accurate, as are my homebuilt (Mostly Stag) ARs. Both are quality. MY AK is past the 1k Mark with the enhancements made. (Then again, My ARs aren't cheapies either.)And, it is just a damn good gun.

 

[IronMonster]

both with iron sights?

Both with military-ish open sights. I have a red dot on an AK but that's as close to an optic as I have ever had (its also the most expensive AK I have ever had pushing a grand without the optic or mount)

I would also say that the same $350 AR will shoot 1-1.5 MOA with a 4 power optic and quality ammo so I suppose if the same holds true for the AK maybe you would get 2-3 MOA with a comparable setup?

I dont know. I have never tried to squeeze accuracy out of any of my AKs.... Because, well... I never thought of them as something to squeeze accuracy out of. I have been of the "lucky to hit the broad side of a barn.... from inside the barn" kind of thinking when it comes to AK's

 

[Colts4me]

How about some fun here, I will start another thread to test you choices. I will call it Out the Door.

 

[hatchj]

My AR's have never dont anything on their own, so I dont consider them evil.

 

[IronMonster]

My AR's have never dont anything on their own, so I dont consider them evil.

Mine have managed to steal all my money.... Somehow.

Evil bastards.

 

[Caveman Jim]

My new AK seems to be doing just fine hitting any B-27 target or steel I place out to 300m. Will it cloverleaf a target out that far? Of course not. It serves just fine for what I expect of it. I can't see further than that these days anyways.

To each his own.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Shootin dirt can be lots of fun

Me likes to shoot the dirt directly behind my target...

 

[Koda]

I would also say that the same $350 AR will shoot 1-1.5 MOA with a 4 power optic and quality ammo so I suppose if the same holds true for the AK maybe you would get 2-3 MOA with a comparable setup?

hmmm. I think an AK can do better with quality ammo. Im not certain if its appropriate to include an optic though because its my opinion that AK's were never intended to mount an optic... (at least every single attempt Ive seen is very, flexible... shall we say). I think with open sights on both rifles, quality ammo, both should land within 2-3 MOA. Cheap ammo.. see my target photo above.