Sorry AR fans, the AK is the true Evil Black Rifle

[Boats]

To each his own.

If I'm going out to 300+, I'm reaching for a scoped .270 or .308 bolt rifle.

 

[SheepDog223]

The one i had was half as evil as all ya'll's.


It did try to hamburger your off hand though.

It had cute little nicknames such as...
cuerno de chivo
Ploha pushka
Dirty thirty
And Bam Bam.

So many names for such a fun little toy.

 

[DirectDrive]

Now I wanna go shoot my AK, with my AR. I bet at 50 yards I could put a 5.56 round down the 7.62 bore of an AK?

LOL

 

[The Heretic]

I actually feel challenged now to find out for myself what an AK can do for accuracy. All things being equal this will have to be an iron sight only experiment since I don't want to buy optics for the AK as I like the simplicity of them (I dont think the AK was really ever 'meant' to have an optic... )
here is the last target sample I played with after adjusting the sight and then plinking around in a prone position freehand at 100yds until I homed in on a nice 3 rounds in a row on the bullseye. Those 3 rds held steady could be luck but I wonder what it will do in a led sled from a bench....

View attachment 414688

Back in the 90s I had a preban Norinco in 5.56. I wanted to see what it would do. I had Angie (The Sightman - no longer in business) put a very solid side receiver scope mount on it, and put a 2-7x Redfield on it. I went and got several different brands of decent ammo and some surplus ammo. Back then they did not have a lot of "match ammo" in 5.56x45 like there is now, but there was some okay ammo. The groups from a benchrest ranged from 2+ MOA to 4 MOA (one hundred yards at Snoqualmie Valley Rifle Club). Not spectacular, but not bad either.

Again, typical max engagement distance of both 5.56x45 and 7.62x39 would be 200 to 300 meters, and most halfway experienced shooters would be able to hit a man sized target at that distance with either an AR or an AK.

 

[osprey]

I'll muddy the waters a bit. I have built 2 Ar 7.62x39 uppers and they both will shoot moa with wolf military classic hp ammo. I am sure some or most of the cheap steel cased ammo is not capable of that kind of accuracy but at least the lot of the wolf I have is. I am sure there are some ak's that are quite accurate as well but it is not really the intent of the platform to have that level of accuracy. They are meant to go bang every time you pull the trigger and be minute of man out to the effective range of the cartridge. The AK does that in spades.

 

[The Heretic]

I'll muddy the waters a bit. I have built 2 Ar 7.62x39 uppers and they both will shoot moa with wolf military classic hp ammo. I am sure some or most of the cheap steel cased ammo is not capable of that kind of accuracy but at least the lot of the wolf I have is. I am sure there are some ak's that are quite accurate as well but it is not really the intent of the platform to have that level of accuracy. They are meant to go bang every time you pull the trigger and be minute of man out to the effective range of the cartridge. The AK does that in spades.

I have a CZ 527 in 7.62x39. Not shot it for accuracy, but my understand is that they do well. The cartridge is not the problem - several benchrest wildcats are based on the 7.62x39.

As I said, the AR has a lot more potential for accuracy, especially if put together with upscale components. The Kalashnikov was never designed for precision, but rather to be a robust durable infantry rifle. It is my first choice for a self-defense rifle role.

I am putting together some 80% AR lowers and purchasing some assembled uppers in 5.56x45 - these will be my backup off the books stash/cache self-defense rifles. One will be "special" - just got a DD 14.5" upper for it, probably going to get a good trigger and BCG for it too. I am looking at a Troy upper for $430 at Primary Arms for one of the other rifles.

 

[IronMonster]

I do have an AK capable of 1.5 MOA.

An AK15

 

[ron]

A consistently accurate AK at 300 yards is beyond any experienced persons belief.

You are correct sir. This is my experience with accuracy of the AK.
I have shot competitive Highpower rifle for over 30 years. These are matches
that back then were iron sights. Shooting from the prone position not from bench rest.
I have several times seen very skilled shooters (Master Classification)
with quality reloads attempted shooting an AK in a match. At 300 yards the AK shooter could
not even hold 10 rounds anywhere on the paper? The AR iron sight service rifle is capable
of perfect scores out to 600 yards. SHTF situation may require you to hit a small target
(basketball size) at +300 yards. With an AK that would be extremely unlikely. IMHO
I am not an AK hater. I like plinking at beer cans with my AK. Face reality AK fanboys.
Accuracy of an AK is pretty poor when compared to an AR.

 

[osprey]

Here is one of the 7.62x39 uppers I built on a Mega upper receiver. The ER shaw barrel is probably the main contributor to the accuracy.

Cheap to shoot and accurate to boot! It doesn't get much better than that. Since I built two, this one is for sale btw! Shameless plug I know lol.

 

[Crohnos01]

I dunno.... I have an evil AK and an evil AR... I can tell they are evil because of the manical laugh that escaped my lips when shooting either. I did kind of giggle when an ex-mil friend of mine sneered at my AK as being "Un-American".... strange.... I didn't realize that guns voted or participated in any kind of politics. Even my friend however had to admit that in field conditons, if you drop your AR in a mud puddle you are in a wee bit more trouble than the AK which you can pick up, shake a few times to get the mud/water out and go back to sending rounds downrange.

All that being said, my basic understanding is that the AR is likely to be more accurate because of the fit and finish of the weapon vs. the average AK which is made sloppy enough to drop in the aforementioned mud puddle and keep on firing without doing a field strip. To be honest, I have never really "loved" either of them. They are both a kick in the keester to shoot but neither is what I am looking for when it comes to long range accuracy. I have a bull barrell pre 64 mod 70 chambered in .243 and a Cooper varmiter in 22-250 if I want do do impressive shots at 500 yards or better.

I will say the AR was horrible at jamming until it got some PMags

In a SHTF situation, I am going to grab whatever I can get my hands on to best my opposition. Worst case scenario, I can smack the close in bad guy over the head with an AK while shooting his buddies further out with the AR

 

[The Heretic]

All that being said, my basic understanding is that the AR is likely to be more accurate because of the fit and finish of the weapon vs. the average AK which is made sloppy enough to drop in the aforementioned mud puddle and keep on firing without doing a field strip.

6 Reasons the AK-47 Is the Most Reliable Rifle in the World: A Guide to Kalashnikov's Magic for Aspiring Gun Designers, Part I - The Firearm Blog
6 Reasons the AK-47 Is the Most Reliable Rifle in the World: A Guide to Kalashnikov's Magic for Aspiring Gun Designers, Part II - The Firearm Blog

 

[Sstrand]

Crohnos
AND, you don't need to carry jumper cables . . .


Sheldon

 

[Aero Denezol]

I did kind of giggle when an ex-mil friend of mine sneered at my AK as being "Un-American".... strange.... I didn't realize that guns voted or participated in any kind of politics.

Yeah, I've heard the same thing. If you own an AK, you are somehow under suspicion for being un-American. Some people just have zero imagination. Actually that's being complimentary: some people have a deficit of imagination. There brains are a black hole for anything novel or interesting. They actually discourage and remove fun from the world.

 

[osprey]

I currently don't own an ak but am looking for one to fill the void .

 

[Argonaut]

I thought about (what I used to know) about AK's and Russian guns in general last night. From my old grey memory, the actual bore dimensions on the rifles varied greatly. There was a huge conversation if you should even shoot common American dimension 7.62 bullets in the larger Russian 7.62 specification. Then guys started slugging barrels and found a huge variance even within the same manufacturer and model rifles. It was even the case with M91 rifles. I don't know what dimension modern ammo is made to, but that is a pretty big variance.

 

[aksu747]

I thought about (what I used to know) about AK's and Russian guns in general last night. From my old grey memory, the actual bore dimensions on the rifled varied greatly. There was a huge conversation if you should even shoot common American dimension 7.62 bullets in the larger Russian 7.92 specification. Then guys started slugging barrels and found a huge variance even within the same manufacturer and model rifles. It was even the case with M91 rifles. I don't know what dimension modern ammo is made to, but that is a pretty big variance.

I think you are confusing the German 7.92x33 Kurz round with the Russian 7.62x39,though similar looking they are very different. As far as I know 7.92x33 has only ever been chambered in late WWII German weapons like the MP44 and Volkssturmgewehr.

 

[Argonaut]

I think you are confusing the German 7.92x33 Kurz round with the Russian 7.62x39,though similar looking they are very different. As far as I know 7.92x33 has only ever been chambered in late WWII German weapons like the MP44 and Volkssturmgewehr.

No......you do know that the bullet diameter specified for the 7.62X39 is .312 inches........not .308.....but the bigger problem is the inconsistency of Russian barrel manufacturing. Some were measured tight and some very loose.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The AR is way better because they've shoehorned it to be capable of firing the supremely superior 9x19 cartridge.

 

[Mygrainman]

I have no desire to own any gun that is not accurate, what is the point???

 

[Boboclown]

What's the saying? Its the Indian, not the arrow? With monarch ammo, I've had no problems with accuracy. Its not that cheap, but my wasr likes it. It is a bit hotter than the other steel case ammo.

The vast majority of Infantry small arms combat occurs within 300 meters which the AK is perfectly suited. Of course there are "field problems" of longer engament distances, but that's what DMR's are for so the rest of the unit can close in for engagement.


Class dimissed.

On the other hand, the PSL is based on the RPK and shoots the 7.62x54R round, its a DMR. There's also the Tabuk Sniper rifle used by the Iraqis. Its chambered in 7.62x39, and is essentially a semiauto RPK with a thinner barrel.

hmmm. I think an AK can do better with quality ammo. Im not certain if its appropriate to include an optic though because its my opinion that AK's were never intended to mount an optic... (at least every single attempt Ive seen is very, flexible... shall we say). I think with open sights on both rifles, quality ammo, both should land within 2-3 MOA. Cheap ammo.. see my target photo above.

I have a POSP on mine. No issues with it. Its simple, rugged, cheap, and has surprisingly good glass.