National So ATF won't come knocking on our doors?

[hawmanai]

They are manufacturing a reason to make a visit, a fishing expedition to see your reaction and what other crimes you might be up to and maybe bait you into saying or doing something.

The constant ads for the oil traps also makes me suspicious about a visit later to see it on your engine or else.

With the help from the credit card companies, high tech makes it easier to track purchases.

A couple years ago they made a visit because he watched some YouTube videos about using oil filters with an adapter to suppress a gun, then ordered some oil filters online. So they have been watching online habits and purchases for awhile.

 

[RX-79G]

It's an issue. Unelected government agencies were not intended to wield such power. The whole point of the elected legislature was that their constituents could hold them accountable. When the American people are discontent with ATF leadership, can they recall them from office like their regular elected representatives? No… that's the point.

The ATF is overseen by elected officials, and the ATF does not have any reputation for bucking the system with their interpretations. They seem to function in line with the will of our representatives. You can bet that the pistol brace decision is not a solo venture by the ATF.

 

[CamoDeafie]

The ATF is overseen by elected officials, and the ATF does not have any reputation for bucking the system with their interpretations. They seem to function in line with the will of our representatives. You can bet that the pistol brace decision is not a solo venture by the ATF.

I certainly do not remember any ATF directors names being on the ballots to be elected.. nor do I remember our Represantives electing any one of them.

Confirm? Yes. But elected? Nope. Also don't think Merrick Garland was elected to head the DOJ... confirmed by Senate though.

Again, these are not elected positions.


Edit. Also... doing what they did apparently got Merrick Garland, Steven Dettelbach, and some other people along with whoever that sleazy Everytown guy was... to be subpoenaed for Congressional Hearings.. I'd say that's bucking the system, especially with them being sued...

 

[Bushman]

As long as gun owners aren't punished, it isnt on them. Citizens werent being punished when cocaine was made illegal, either.


But my point is that individual consumers are setting themselves up for disappointment when they buy new products that are clearly designed to circumvent the intention of the law. It will only be so long before the regulators realize and adjust the regulations accordingly.


The outrage over bump stocks, oil filter can adapters and pistol braces is ridiculous.

Lick them boots good boy!

 

[RX-79G]

I certainly do not remember any ATF directors names being on the ballots to be elected.. nor do I remember our Represantives electing any one of them.

Confirm? Yes. But elected? Nope. Also don't think Merrick Garland was elected to head the DOJ... confirmed by Senate though.

Again, these are not elected positions.

Merrick Garland is an employee of the Justice Department, part of the Executive branch headed by an elected official. If he doesn't do what the Prez thinks is ethical and appropriate, he gets fired. And that is true no matter who the Prez. The last one went through how many AGs?

 

[Yarome]

Lick them boots good boy!

Someone obviously slept through U.S. government class is school, hu. Or... do they even teach that anymore(??)

It's probably not the best idea for the indoctrination programs to teach students about how the gooberment works, it's limitations, check and balances and their rights as U.S. citizens, I guess. U.S. history is probably not a great idea either. People might get ideas.

 

[eustace_stelio]

They are manufacturing a reason to make a visit, a fishing expedition to see your reaction and what other crimes you might be up to and maybe bait you into saying or doing something.

The constant ads for the oil traps also makes me suspicious about a visit later to see it on your engine or else.

With the help from the credit card companies, high tech makes it easier to track purchases.

A couple years ago they made a visit because he watched some YouTube videos about using oil filters with an adapter to suppress a gun, then ordered some oil filters online. So they have been watching online habits and purchases for awhile.

Crazy

 

[CamoDeafie]

Merrick Garland is an employee of the Justice Department, part of the Executive branch headed by an elected official. If he doesn't do what the Prez thinks is ethical and appropriate, he gets fired. And that is true no matter who the Prez. The last one went through how many AGs?

And he's being grilled and sued and our potato-in-chief can't be bothered to do the job properly

 

[RX-79G]

Someone obviously slept through U.S. government class is school, hu.

Why must you always insult? Act like an adult.

I repeatedly look up laws and quote them on these threads. I have had an excellent primary and college education and certainly understand government and civics. So why don't you stick to the discussion rather than acting like a 7 year old?

 

[American123]

The ATF is overseen by elected officials, and the ATF does not have any reputation for bucking the system with their interpretations. They seem to function in line with the will of our representatives. You can bet that the pistol brace decision is not a solo venture by the ATF.

The ATF has classified multiple things that were previously legal and still to this day remain legal, per letter of law, as illegal.

They weren't elected by the American people and I'm not aware of the part in the constitution that gives them such authority. That's reserved for the legislative branch. That's still the issue.

The ATF were designed to be an enforcement agency, not a legislative branch.

 

[Flopsweat]

The ATF has classified multiple things that were previously legal and still to this day remain legal, per letter of law, as illegal.

They weren't elected by the American people and I'm not aware of the part in the constitution that gives them such authority. That's reserved for the legislative branch. That's still the issue.

What you're talking about is a legal principal called Chevron Deference. It allows agencies some leeway with unclear legislation when it's unclear in specific ways, and when the statute doesn't involve criminal penalties. Chevron Deference does not and never has applied to the NFA or GCA.

Chevron deference

www.law.cornell.edu

Edit: The Supreme Court has been asked and agreed to review Chevron Deference. If it's overturned, federal regulatory agencies will have to adhere much more strictly to the law.

 

[American123]

What you're talking about is a legal principal called Chevron Deference. It allows agencies some leeway with unclear legislation when it's unclear in specific ways, and when the statute doesn't involve criminal penalties. Chevron Deference does not and never has applied to the NFA or GCA.

Chevron deference

www.law.cornell.edu

Yep, but chevron deference 10 years later after 40 million products have been sold legally to 10+ million Americans who paid taxes on those legal transactions and then ATF says "changed our mind - be a felon, or comply…"

Must be nice to have the legal monopoly on violence.

 

[Flopsweat]

Yep, but chevron deference 10 years later after 40 million products have been sold legally to 10+ million Americans who paid taxes on those legal transactions and then ATF says "changed our mind - be a felon, or comply…"

Must be nice to have the legal monopoly on violence.

It's what dictators crave.

 

[Old Dog]

Someone obviously slept through U.S. government class is school, hu. Or... do they even teach that anymore(??)

It's probably not the best idea for the indoctrination programs to teach students about how the gooberment works, it's limitations, check and balances and their rights as U.S. citizens, I guess. U.S. history is probably not a great idea either. People might get ideas.

No, U.S. history (real history) and U.S.. government (social studies, civics) are not taught in the public schools anymore. A child of mine who graduated HS (WA state) in 2005, I read her U.S. History textbook and it was pathetic. Essentially brushed over the reasons for the war for independence, the Civil War, Constitution and only mentioned two of the amendments in the BOR. (Hint: neither were #2).

Thing is, we have at least two generations, no, make that three, behind mine (yes, I'm a Baby Boomer) who are victims of our totally failed public education system.

They just don't know any better, and they don't know what they don't know.

But they do seem to believe that whatever the government says is what we should all be doing.

 

[Yarome]

Why must you always insult? Act like an adult.

I repeatedly look up laws and quote them on these threads. I have had an excellent primary and college education and certainly understand government and civics. So why don't you stick to the discussion rather than acting like a 7 year old?

"Mumbo jumbo", "drinking the kool-aid", "hallucinations", spouting "NRA propaganda", "7 year old", etc... Kettle, meet black.

Typical troll behavior. Dish out disrespect but get butthurt if it comes back their way.

It's not enough to look up a law and quote them if you are misapplying them. If you were paying attention, chevron deference does not apply. Other than the obvious about the criminal penalty issue, several courts have also issued conflicting rulings.. which means what? That the interpretation is ambiguous which requires lenity to apply and is highly likely to be taken up by a higher court for a final determination.

Ignore all and keep quoting chevron deference all you want though. It's a free country.

There is also, obviously, some kind of disconnect if you, as stated, believe the alphabet is simply doing the bidding of the "representatives". Aka, "congress", of which they are not. Congress has not changed the law nor directed the alphabet to make any revisions, clarifications or issued them any new mandates. That's purely the executive branch doing that. Of which they are expressly forbidden from doing. The fact that you are confusing the two, or implying that any elected position makes that person a legislative representative seems to make it pretty obvious your understanding of how it all works is a little sketchy.

(I could be wrong on some. It's pretty difficult at times to make sense of your posts.)

At any rate. It's not really possible to have a "discussion" if salient facts and practical applications are going to be ignored for the sake of maintaining your preferred narrative. Obviously, you're free to feel however your want. You're fully entitled to your opinions, but that doesn't necessarily make them "true" no matter how you try and bend it.

 

[Yarome]

Congress banned certain guns and mags by law.

Which mag's did congress ban again? I forget.

 

[Flopsweat]

Which mag's did congress ban again? I forget.

Mags Bennett. But she's dead.

 

[Bushman]

Someone obviously slept through U.S. government class is school, hu. Or... do they even teach that anymore(??)

It's probably not the best idea for the indoctrination programs to teach students about how the gooberment works, it's limitations, check and balances and their rights as U.S. citizens, I guess. U.S. history is probably not a great idea either. People might get ideas.

Says the guy with a high school diploma

You apparently don't understand what the constitution is or what shall not be infringed means.

 

[Yarome]

Says the guy with a high school diploma

You apparently don't understand what the constitution is or what shall not be infringed means.

Excuse me????

 

[wired]

"Mumbo jumbo", "drinking the kool-aid", "hallucinations", spouting "NRA propaganda", "7 year old", etc... Kettle, meet black.

Typical troll behavior. Dish out disrespect but get butthurt if it comes back their way.

It's not enough to look up a law and quote them if you are misapplying them. If you were paying attention, chevron deference does not apply. Other than the obvious about the criminal penalty issue, several courts have also issued conflicting rulings.. which means what? That the interpretation is ambiguous which requires lenity to apply and is highly likely to be taken up by a higher court for a final determination.

Ignore all and keep quoting chevron deference all you want though. It's a free country.

There is also, obviously, some kind of disconnect if you, as stated, believe the alphabet is simply doing the bidding of the "representatives". Aka, "congress", of which they are not. Congress has not changed the law nor directed the alphabet to make any revisions, clarifications or issued them any new mandates. That's purely the executive branch doing that. Of which they are expressly forbidden from doing. The fact that you are confusing the two, or implying that any elected position makes that person a legislative representative seems to make it pretty obvious your understanding of how it all works is a little sketchy.

(I could be wrong on some. It's pretty difficult at times to make sense of your posts.)

At any rate. It's not really possible to have a "discussion" if salient facts and practical applications are going to be ignored for the sake of maintaining your preferred narrative. Obviously, you're free to feel however your want. You're fully entitled to your opinions, but that doesn't necessarily make them "true" no matter how you try and bend it.

He is saying that the ATF is administered by an elected official . , which it is. The President , as the head of the administrative/executive branch is an elected official. The President appoints an AG and the President is ultimately responsible for the actions of his lower level agencies actions. Congress has nothing to do with the day to day actions of the ATF other than to pass laws and provide funding. The ATF is doing the bidding of an elected official, the President. The Presidnt told them to make bumpstocks machineguns so they did it and wer'e in court abou tit. The President told them to justify how they classified pistol braces as something other than buttstocks and at some point it will go to court as well.