Washington Has anybody heard of this up coming ATF BS?

[rdb241]

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[GrayGoose]

FJB
FATF

 

[rdb241]

Civiclick

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petition here..........

 

[CrackPipe]

Are you referring to this?

Q: What does it mean to be "engaged in the business of dealing in firearms"?
A: Under federal law at 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(21)(C), a person engaged in thebusiness of dealing in firearms is a person who "devotes time, attentionand labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business topredominantly earn a profit through the repetitive purchase and resale offirearms." In 2022, the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act (BSCA) revisedthis intent language to replace "with the principal objective of livelihood andprofit" with "to predominately earn a profit."
Section 921, as amended by BSCA, defines the term "to predominantly earna profit" to mean "the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms ispredominantly one of obtaining pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents,such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection." 18 U.S.C. §921(a)(22). Section 921 explicitly provides, however, that the term "engaged inthe business," as it applies to a dealer of firearms, does not include a personwho only "makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms forthe enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells

 

[huntpotter]

Well. I guess that's good that I loose a couple hundred bucks on every gun I sell, private party transfer. I buy a gun for $600. Add a couple hundred bucks worth of extra mags, grips, holsters, optics, upgrades. I'll be in to it for $800. And then I get bored with it and sell the whole package for $450 or less.

They could never accuse me of making a profit.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Well. I guess that's good that I loose a couple hundred bucks on every gun I sell, private party transfer. I buy a gun for $600. Add a couple hundred bucks worth of extra mags, grips, holsters, optics, upgrades. I'll be in to it for $800. And then I get bored with it and sell the whole package for $450 or less.

They could never accuse me of making a profit.

You're making friends with the stuff I see you sell.

 

[Tinman357]

Sold quite a few over the last 3+ decades. Never made a profit on any of them.

 

[edzz]

Well. I guess that's good that I loose a couple hundred bucks on every gun I sell, private party transfer. I buy a gun for $600. Add a couple hundred bucks worth of extra mags, grips, holsters, optics, upgrades. I'll be in to it for $800. And then I get bored with it and sell the whole package for $450 or less.

They could never accuse me of making a profit.

Heck, with bidonomics being what it is if I paid $1000 by the time I could find a buyer even if I sold it for $1100 I'd be taking a loss...

 

[Mike_M57]

FJB
FATF

This.

These two entities can take a double-ended marital aide, dip it in ghost pepper sauce, coat it with cyanoacrylate, shove it up their respective leaky sphincters and play tug-of-war in Hell for all eternity.

 

[Stomper]

This.

These two entities can take a double-ended marital aide, dip it in ghost pepper sauce, coat it with cyanoacrylate, shove it up their respective leaky sphincters and play tug-of-war in Hell for all eternity.

 

[Yarome]

This is nothing short of a nationwide P2S/national registry scheme with the power to revoke their permission at a whim.

If they can't legally stop people from buying... stop people from selling.

I believe we have until the 7th to submit public input on the proposed rule. GOA did a simple form to aide with submitting responses to the rule... if folks haven't done so yet... it only takes a minute.

(Link in post #3, but worth repeating)

Civiclick

Reach policymakers and their staff more effectively with AI-powered grassroots advocacy technology.

hosted-page.civiclick.com

 

[Mikej]

This.

These two entities can take a double-ended marital aide, dip it in ghost pepper sauce, coat it with cyanoacrylate, shove it up their respective leaky sphincters and play tug-of-war in Hell for all eternity.

Oooof.... Oh man. I love dirty talk....Mmmmm


Making profit on used guns? I haven't been in the game long enough to have anything that's appreciated? Other than a couple guns Dad had that will NEVER be sold by me. Seems that gun that I have that I think of selling I'd be losing money, the way things are today! Can that be written of as loss?

 

[Yarome]

I think the scariest part of the rule is the "presumption" basis. Mentioned repeatedly in several sections....

"...this rule proposes to clarify that, absent reliable evidence to the contrary, a person will be presumed to be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms..."

Although they are limiting "presumed in violation" to civil and administrative actions and excluding it in criminal cases. Aren't they sweet!!

 

[bradsteen]

I think the scariest part of the rule is the "presumption" basis. Mentioned repeatedly in several sections....

"...this rule proposes to clarify that, absent reliable evidence to the contrary, a person will be presumed to be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms..."

Although they are limiting "presumed in violation" to civil and administrative actions and excluding it in criminal cases. Aren't they sweet!!

That's asinine. The presumption should be that people are not "engaged in the business of selling firearms", and burden should be on the government to provide "reliable evidence to the contrary". That whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing is supposed to be the standard by which our justice system operates.

 

[Yarome]

That's asinine. The presumption should be that people are not "engaged in the business of selling firearms", and burden should be on the government to provide "reliable evidence to the contrary". That whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing is supposed to be the standard by which our justice system operates.

It's a scary pattern developing. "Affirmative defense", "presumption provisions", "red flag laws" and the like going flat contrary to the whole principle of "innocent until proven guilty" and "due process".

As we've learned from alphabet agents conducting FFL audits... they no longer have the authority for discretion or ability to make recommendations. The raw audit data is typed into a computer and an algorithm spits out a determination. With the number of revocations it's seems obvious that algorithm has been programmed for any discrepancy to be under the same approach of... "lacking evidence to the contrary... presumed to be 'engaged in illegal firearm activity'" and their licenses revoked.

There is no credible reason to believe they won't do the same against private citizen FFL type licensing as well. They aren't "banning" the sale of firearms and they can't be held accountable if a person does something that warrants a revocation of their permission slip. Right!!?