National So ATF won't come knocking on our doors?

[CamoDeafie]

Per the ATF page

26 U.S.C. § 5845(b) For the purposes of the National Firearms Act the term Machine gun means: Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.


Where in the definition does "rate of fire" go?

Looking at the FRT/WOT animations, it seems to hinge on the whole interpretation of what "a single function of the trigger" means.. not "single pull"; not "assisted by device to allow a single action"....



And.. Cargill case basically told the ATF/DOJ to stick to the Congressional definition laid out and not to modify/add rulings to expand on what Congress wrote... I believe, and that's with regards to the whole bumpstock thing

 

[nwslopoke]

Did they? At least with the CRT case everything I have heard (including in the video his wife just released) Matt called the ATF and didn't have anything in writing

I was referring to pistol braces.

 

[nwslopoke]

The outrage over bump stocks, oil filter can adapters and pistol braces is ridridiculous

I don't agree. Bump stocks in themselves are no more a danger than the rifle they are attached to. Besides the fact they aren't required to perform that function.

Regardless, what is ridiculous is the government crying foul for the laws they created. Duh, we didn't think of that. Probably due to it actually not being a problem.

Bump stocks, triggers, braces, ect are manufactured low threat problems bureaucrats use instead of doing the tasks they were created to do. The hard work most likely they were failing at.

 

[RX-79G]

The ATF is chasing their tail....
The problem is the prohibition in the first place. The difference, today, is technology is radically more efficient. 30yrs ago a court ruling pretty much ended ideas, but today almost anyone can take a product to market... Moving the goalpost so to speak.
Similar to the ghost gun market... (I have a theory that technology will force gun prohibitions out....)

If they would just end full auto prohibition then at least the govt could regulate who has them better and it would be much easier to stop others from skirting the law when theres a formal process.

Youve just explained why the government wont be able to regulate them if made legal - it is too easy now to make mods at home

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Am I the only one that gets a, "That video looks entirely fake," vibe?

Its not confirmed at all and the whole gun-internet is losing their minds.

"They're cummin fur yer goons!"

"Time 2 get strapped bois."

"Oh my go, oh my god, BUY BUY BUY!"

What I don't understand is many months ago we saw videos of atf coming after FRT triggers. Later we saw videos of them going after WOTs. There are videos and numerous reports of them going after solvent traps. There is one video of them going to see homeowners guns where he bought two handguns in one day

In other words, none of this is new and has been going on for months. At least since the start of operation reticent recall (and solvent traps before that even). I don't understand why there would be any reaction at all to this video. It's nothing new at all.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I was referring to pistol braces.

And bump stocks. And precursors to the FRT type triggers.

 

[RX-79G]

I don't agree. Bump stocks in themselves are no more a danger than the rifle they are attached to. Besides the fact they aren't required to perform that function.

Regardless, what is ridiculous is the government crying foul for the laws they created. Duh, we didn't think of that. Probably due to it actually not being a problem.

Bump stocks, triggers, braces, ect are manufactured low threat problems bureaucrats use instead of doing the tasks they were created to do. The hard work most likely they were failing at.

Pretend it isnt guns but a process put in place to keep mercury out of food. The government says how to do it, then someone invents a cooking method that follows the law but lets mercury get through. Should the FDA change the regulation for this new reality or let there be mercury in food?

 

[Koda]

Youve just explained why the government wont be able to regulate them if made legal - it is too easy now to make mods at home

Maybe...
My thought is that if full auto was legal then people wouldnt need to be so creative skirting the law.
...and then it would be easier to enforce those that try. I think the definition of full auto might need to be updated though.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Pretend it isnt guns but a process put in place to keep mercury out of food. The government says how to do it, then someone invents a cooking method that follows the law but lets mercury get through. Should the FDA change the regulation for this new reality or let there be mercury in food?

Doesn't Congress have a law that expressly gave the FDA the authority to come up with food and drug safety regulations...? As in they passed a law to give the FDA authority?

 

[nwslopoke]

Pretend it isnt guns but a process put in place to keep mercury out of food. The government says how to do it, then someone invents a cooking method that follows the law but lets mercury get through. Should the FDA change the regulation for this new reality or let there be mercury in food?

We just see things through different lenses. No problem.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Doesn't Congress have a law that expressly gave the FDA the authority to come up with food and drug safety regulations...? As in they passed a law to give the FDA authority?

I think trump opened Pandora's box when he had atf go after bump stocks. Now atf thinks they can go after anything the Oval Office tells them whether it's legal to do so or not. Hopefully the courts will rein them in. Chevron deference does not apply to criminal statutes but it seems that's what they have been depending on so far.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I think trump opened Pandora's box when he had atf go after bump stocks. Now atf thinks they can go after anything the Oval Office tells them whether it's legal to do so or not. Hopefully the courts will rein them in. Chevron deference does not apply to criminal statutes but it seems that's what they have been depending on so far.

Not talking about Chevron. It was the Federal Food and Drugs Act of 1906 that started the process through which the FDA gets their authority from Congress.. IE, Congress passed laws to regulate the FDA bureaucracy. Whereas the ATF thing gets all their authority from NFA and GCA and FOPA laws, but not the delegation to lawfully create rulings with criminal penalties (what the lawsuits are all about)

 

[Kruel J]

That is about as real as the email I got the other day from my long-lost cousin, the Nigerian Prince.

We have the same cousin! Are you my brother?

 

[Nosferatu]

We have the same cousin! Are you my brother?

Maybe. A TRUE brother will send me money to buy some new guns.

 

[RX-79G]

Doesn't Congress have a law that expressly gave the FDA the authority to come up with food and drug safety regulations...? As in they passed a law to give the FDA authority?

Dunno. Are you saying Congress is unaware of how guns are regulated or object to the way it's done? If not, Congress is still creating that authority.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Dunno. Are you saying Congress is unaware of how guns are regulated or object to the way it's done? If not, Congress is still creating that authority.

I'm saying that Congress passed laws that gave the FDA that authority, whereas Congress did not pass a law that gave the ATF the authority to redefine what Congress defined as "machine guns" and "short barreled rifles"

 

[RX-79G]

We just see things through different lenses. No problem.

Diaagreeing with the existance of a law is not the same as agreeing that it functions a certain way. I can dislike having to tax stamp a silencer without appreciating that a muzzle brake is legally defined differently.

 

[RX-79G]

I'm saying that Congress passed laws that gave the FDA that authority, whereas Congress did not pass a law that gave the ATF the authority to redefine what Congress defined as "machine guns" and "short barreled rifles"

Right. But Congress chose to authorize the ATF to act, and they keep choosing the ATF to act. So Congress has spoken.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Right. But Congress chose to authorize the ATF to act, and they keep choosing the ATF to act. So Congress has spoken.

House Joint Resolution 44 passed out of committee and is on the House floor to officially have Congress disapprove of the Pistol Brace Final Ruling. there were weeks of House Judiciary Committee hearings, where Chairman Jim Jordan pointed out that Congress did not pass a law to redefine/expand the NFA terms.

 

[titsonritz]

That is about as real as the email I got the other day from my long-lost cousin, the Nigerian Prince.

My thought as well, fake news.