Smokeless Muzzleloader Anyone? We don’t need no stinking Cartridge!

[osprey]

Does anyone here have experience with smokeless muzzleloaders? I bought a Cva scout v2 single shot in 45-70, with the sole intention of sending it out to have the breech threaded to accept a plug that turns it into a smokeless powder muzzleloader. I sent the barrel out to Jeff at Hankins Precision Rifles and got it back promptly with all the necessary mods and trinkets. So far the mods look well executed. The breech plug accepts a brass primer module that fits a lr mag primer for ignition. So basically you pour 55-65 gr of imr 4198 down the bore, followed by a properly sized 250-300gr 45 cal projectile. The velocities that can be achieved are shoulder numbing. I ordered a smooth form bullet sizing die from Jeff so I can try various bullets to find a good combo. First up will be some 300 gr gold dots. I should even be able to use it for true ML seasons here in WA if I also develop a load with Bh 209 powder and put iron sights on it. Anyhow I am looking forward to shooting this thing soon to see what it is all about. I will try and post some pics this eve.

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[JuglansRegia]

You should have had it set up to use 209 primers or even 50bmg

 

[osprey]

You should have had it set up to use 209 primers or even 50bmg

Why do you say that? I have a lot of LR mag primers .

 

[JuglansRegia]

Why do you say that? I have a lot of LR mag primers .

Because if you can find primers on a shelf right now, it would most likely be either one of those two.

 

[tac]

Does anyone here have experience with smokeless muzzleloaders? I bought a Cva scout v2 single shot in 45-70, with the sole intention of sending it out to have the breech threaded to accept a plug that turns it into a smokeless powder muzzleloader. I sent the barrel out to Jeff at Hankins Precision Rifles and got it back promptly with all the necessary mods and trinkets. So far the mods look well executed. The breech plug accepts a brass primer module that fits a lr mag primer for ignition. So basically you pour 55-65 gr of imr 4198 down the bore, followed by a properly sized 250-300gr 45 cal projectile. The velocities that can be achieved are shoulder numbing. I ordered a smooth form bullet sizing die from Jeff so I can try various bullets to find a good combo. First up will be some 300 gr gold dots. I should even be able to use it for true ML seasons here in WA if I also develop a load with Bh 209 powder and put iron sights on it. Anyhow I am looking forward to shooting this thing soon to see what it is all about. I will try and post some pics this eve.

Most people of my acquaintance view the words 'smokeless muzzleloader' in the same light as 'slighty pregnant' or 'very-near virgin'.

Me included, I might add.

 

[osprey]

Most people of my acquaintance view the words 'smokeless muzzleloader' in the same light as 'slighty pregnant' or 'very-near virgin'.

Me included, I might add.

Come on over next time you are in town Tac and I will let you shoot it so you won't be a virgin anymore!

 

[tac]

That's a kind offer I'd love to take up on! Thanks!!

 

[osprey]

That's a kind offer I'd love to take up on! Thanks!!

You are welcome anytime. I'd love to pick your brain about all things rifle!

 

[osprey]

Here are some pics of the beastie.

 

[osprey]

First outing was short lived as I torpedoed my shooting session with self inflicted mistakes . I failed to adequately bore sight, so after 5 shots with no clue where I was hitting at 50yds, I pulled breech plug and bore sighted. I then loaded back up but had forgotten to reinstall the breech plug. Despite concerted efforts the clear loose powder from the action and breech threads, I could not seat plug correctly to close action. Game over. Took it home and corrected and double checked bore sighting. The 5 shots I took were with 50- 55gr of imr 4198 and 300 gr gold dots. Ignition was instant and recoil was fairly mild. Hoping to get back out soon with hotter loads and chrono equipment.

 

[Capn Jack]

At least you didn't, "Dry Ball" it like someone I know...

 

[2Wheels4Ever]

Forgive my ignorance in these matters, but does the breech plug and primer need to be installed prior to adding powder?

 

[arakboss]

I don't know why anyone would try this.

What if you took a break open firearm like yours and cut down a brass casing to let's say a 1/2 inch of length to use as the "breech plug" and primer holder. To load the firearm you would first install the cut down brass case and than you could load the powder and projectile from the muzzle? If you were worried about the primer igniting while loading you could ream the primer pocket to have just a tight enough fit that you could press in a primer with your thumb which could be done after the charge and projectile were loaded. The cut down piece of brass would have to have a slightly tight fit as to not fall out when action was opened to install the primer.

 

[osprey]

Forgive my ignorance in these matters, but does the breech plug and primer need to be installed prior to adding powder?

Aah yeah! You funny man.

 

[tac]

Aah yeah! You funny man.

I think that it really is a serious question being asked here....

 

[arakboss]

I think that it really is a serious question being asked here....

I agree. Of course the breech plug would have to be installed first. The question I have is can the primer be fit after loading the charge and projectile?

 

[osprey]

I don't know why anyone would try this.

What if you took a break open firearm like yours and cut down a brass casing to let's say a 1/2 inch of length to use as the "breech plug" and primer holder. To load the firearm you would first install the cut down brass case and than you could load the powder and projectile from the muzzle? If you were worried about the primer igniting while loading you could ream the primer pocket to have just a tight enough fit that you could press in a primer with your thumb which could be done after the charge and projectile were loaded. The cut down piece of brass would have to have a slightly tight fit as to not fall out when action was opened to install the primer.

Smokeless powders generate too much pressure and you would get blowback with loose primer pocket. Also the way I have it with a threaded in breech plug, if I use blackhorn 209 or similar I can hunt with it during ML season in WA. I thought about doing just like you proposed but those are the reasons I didn't go that route.

 

[arakboss]

Why was a breech plug necessary?

 

[arakboss]

Smokeless powders generate too much pressure and you would get blowback with loose primer pocket. Also the way I have it with a threaded in breech plug, if I use blackhorn 209 or similar I can hunt with it during ML season in WA. I thought about doing just like you proposed but those are the reasons I didn't go that route.

So you have to install primer prior to loading the charge and projectile?

 

[osprey]

I agree. Of course the breech plug would have to be installed first. The question I have is can the primer be fit after loading the charge and projectile?

Yes the machined brass adapter modules with preinstalled primers fit in and are seated with the snapping close of action. After firing the extractor will unseat module from breech. It is pretty slick really.