Anyone know what cartridge this is?

[TJ304]

I was going thru some of my Father's things and came across a very odd
cartridge. The head stamp indicates that it is a 30-06 SPRG made by
Winchester. But it obviously is NOT a 30-06.
Look at the picture.
The cartridge on the left is a "really" 30-06 SPRG. The cartridge on the right
is the odd thing in Dad's stuff. Not only is it longer but the bullet is approximately
.015 greater in diameter.
So, anyone know what this "wildcat" critter is? Thanks!

Read More

 

[bcp]

Looks a lot like 8mm Mauser on the left, 30-06 on the right. The Mauser would be about 1/4 inch shorter and slightly larger diameter bullet, and reformed from a 30-06 case.

Bruce

 

[msgriff]

8mm Gibbs, but you would need to measure the case length to know.

 

[quneur]

8mm Rem Mag? It looks like the remnants of the belt at the bottom.

 

[bcp]

Dimensioned drawing here:

Reloading Data 8mm Mauser / 8x57mm Mauser / 8x57mm JS Mauser (Ramshot Data Edition 4.5 - 2011) Metallic

8mm Mauser / 8x57mm Mauser / 8x57mm JS Mauser (Ramshot Data Edition 4.5 - 2011) reloading data with 12 loads. Using bullets from Hornady SP, Sierra SPT, Sierra Hollow Point Boat Tail, Nosler SPT. Powders include Ramshot

loaddata.com

Bruce

 

[Char77]

Are you sure the one on the left is actually .30-06? I'm not sure how so much length could have been added to the .30-06 case on the right if the one on the left is actually still around 63mm so I'm wondering if the left one has been shortened and reformed into something like .308 or 7.65x53. If my suspicions are correct and the longer case is actually about the the normal length for .30-06 then I would bet it's 8mm-06.

 

[bcp]

Lots of guessing. We need case length and base diameter for more educated guessing.

Here is a sortable table of 8mm + - cartridges. Cases much longer longer than 30-06 have larger bases.

8 mm caliber - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Bruce

 

[CLT65]

Are you sure the one on the left is actually .30-06? I'm not sure how so much length could have been added to the .30-06 case on the right if the one on the left is actually still around 63mm so I'm wondering if the left one has been shortened and reformed into something like .308 or 7.65x53. If my suspicions are correct and the longer case is actually about the the normal length for .30-06 then I would bet it's 8mm-06.

This- the round on the left is not a 30-06. I've handled, reloaded, and reformed a lot of similar cartridges over the years, and from your photo, my guess is that the one on the left is a 7.7 Arisaka (reformed from 30-06), and the one on the right looks like a 8mm-06.

 

[DeanMk]

I was going thru some of my Father's things and came across a very odd
cartridge. The head stamp indicates that it is a 30-06 SPRG made by
Winchester. But it obviously is NOT a 30-06.
Look at the picture.
The cartridge on the left is a "really" 30-06 SPRG. The cartridge on the right
is the odd thing in Dad's stuff. Not only is it longer but the bullet is approximately
.015 greater in diameter.
So, anyone know what this "wildcat" critter is? Thanks!

View attachment 1410677

I know there was once a popular wildcat called an 8mm/06.
War surplus rifles with shot out barrels were often treated to this mod.
Some people enjoyed the larger bullet and just did the mod anyway.
Other cartridges came along (namely, the .338 Winchester) and the 8mm wildcat became a thing of the past.
I still remember talking with an old friend of my dad's, on the occassion of his death, and he couldn't say enough great things about the 8mm/06.
However, I don't remember the conversion lengthening the cartridge like that.
I agree with the others. Cartridge on left is 8mm mauser. The one on the right is 8mm/06.

 

[DeanMk]

8mm Gibbs, but you would need to measure the case length to know.

From "The Hunters Life" forum...
The 8mm Gibbs is based on the 30-06, improved by stratening the walls, then sharpening and moving the shoulder forward..
The case length should be the same, so it still doesn't explain why one cartridge is shorter than the other.
I think the suggestion that we're seeing an 8mm Mauser next to a .30/06 is a more accurate depiction.

 

[CLT65]

I agree with the others. Cartridge on left is 8mm mauser. The one on the right is a .30/06.

The one on the left is definitely shorter than a 30-06, and the other one is 30-06 length, but if you look closely at the one on the right, the bullet and case neck look (to me) to be slightly fatter than a 30-06.

The OP says that the longer round has a slightly fatter bullet than the shorter one. An 8mm-06 is just a 30-06 case opened up for an 8mm bullet. That's why I said the longer round looks very much like an 8mm-06 round.

I also don't think the shorter one is an 8mm Mauser. It looks more like a 7.7mm Arisaka, a very similar round with a slightly smaller bullet.

 

[DeanMk]

The one on the left is definitely shorter than a 30-06, and the other one is 30-06 length, but if you look closely at the one on the right, the bullet and case neck look (to me) to be slightly fatter than a 30-06.

The OP says that the longer round has a slightly fatter bullet than the shorter one. An 8mm-06 is just a 30-06 case opened up for an 8mm bullet. That's why I said the longer round looks very much like an 8mm-06 round.

I also don't think the shorter one is an 8mm Mauser. It looks more like a 7.7mm Arisaka, a very similar round with a slightly smaller bullet.

It might be 7.7. Not familiar enough with that cartridge to know it on sight. Some others said 8mm Mauser and I know that cartridge and I know its shorter, so I jumped on the Mauser bandwagon.
Sorry for the mistake on the /06. You're right, I should've said it was 8mm/06, not .30/06.
Went back and corrected my post. Sorry 'bout that.

EDIT: Got curious, so I looked it up and compared a picture identifying the 7.7 and the OP's pic.
I then went and looked at a 7.5mm Swiss.
...I think you're onto something.

 

[po18guy]

I was going thru some of my Father's things and came across a very odd
cartridge. The head stamp indicates that it is a 30-06 SPRG made by
Winchester. But it obviously is NOT a 30-06.
Look at the picture.
The cartridge on the left is a "really" 30-06 SPRG. The cartridge on the right
is the odd thing in Dad's stuff. Not only is it longer but the bullet is approximately
.015 greater in diameter.
So, anyone know what this "wildcat" critter is? Thanks!

View attachment 1410677

Caliper time. Bullet diameter, case head and case length will tell.
Got a copy of Cartridges of the World? Really helpful for such.

 

[Certaindeaf]

You need to start buying rifles and see which one it fits into. It's really rather simple.

 

[CLT65]

Sorry for the mistake on the /06. You're right, I should've said it was 8mm/06, not .30/06.
Went back and corrected my post. Sorry 'bout that.

No worries, we're both just trying to help. "What's this cartridge" is always a fun game.

You need to start buying rifles and see which one it fits into. It's really rather simple.

I agree! I have a Berthier carbine because I once found a small handful of 8mm Lebel brass cases on the ground at the range.

 

[CLT65]

Caliper time. Bullet diameter, case head and case length will tell.
Got a copy of Cartridges of the World? Really helpful for such.

I got my first copy of Cartridges of the World at a surplus store back in the mid 1980s. I was maybe 14 or 15 and very interested in such things. The store had a bin full of random ammo for a quarter apiece, and I'd go in and dig through them every chance I got. The manager was an older guy who also liked old guns and cartridges. One day he saw me digging through the bin, grabbed a copy of Cartridges of the World off the shelf and told me I needed it. He took his pen, lined out the price tag and authorized a substantial discount. I still have that book, along with a couple newer revisions over the years.

 

[Mikej]

Is there no head stamp?