Single shot shotguns anybody else like 'em?

Discussion in 'Shotgun Discussion' started by AndyinEverson, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. gmerkt

    gmerkt
    w. Wash.
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    Here is a picture of the NEF Survivor. The stock is butt-ugly (pardon the pun) but functional. It's marked SB-1, so it's a cast iron shotgun frame. The serial number prefix dates it to 2006 and it's marked New England Firearms, made shortly before the acquisition by Remington in '07. Rem. killed off the NEF name and reverted to H&R 1871. Yes, the H&R website is still up but who knows why. Information is out that all production of H&R 1871 products ceased in 2015. I don't know all the history of the acquisition but NEF had been taken over by Marlin in 2000 and operated as a separate unit. I'm just guessing but maybe Remington wanted Marlin, didn't care much about NEF/H&R stuff but got it as baggage in the transaction.

    iIbrE4a.jpg


    I've owned a T/C Contender .45 Colt/.410 bbl. before in the past. Plus several other bbls. but I've found that I can't shoot the Contender well and mine will be going away shortly. I'm already down to just the .223 Rem and .41 Mag bbls. NEF made a standard SB-1 shotgun in .410/.45 Colt, I had one of those about 10 years ago. It had the lightly rifled barrel and same kind of choke. I don't remember the wrench being marked T/C but if not, it was made the same.

    This is a picture of the fancy ammo I bought recently:

    grvRNIy.jpg

    Below is my DeLuxe Topper H&R that I got new in 1966. .410 bore. Didn't need a recoil pad, came that way from the factory. Now it's hard as a rock, just a spacer.

    SOVcK2S.jpg


    Also my NEF SB-1 in 28 gauge, made in 1992.

    2kwTjZU.jpg


    In addition, I've got an SB-2 (steel rifle frame) which is .223 Rem., they called these the Handi-rifle. Different bbl. configurations were available for .223, this one has a short but heavy profile. At the breech it looks like a scaled-down naval gun, very thick. In the past, I also had one of these with the thin taper bbl. in .223, never could get it to shoot as well as the one with the heavy bbl.
     
  2. DeanMk

    DeanMk
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    All the frame's are steel.
    Cast Iron went out with the 19th century.
    The difference between SB-1 and SB-2 was that the SB-1 shotgun receiver was a light weight receiver.
    The SB-2 rifle receiver retained a lot more steel so that it can stand up to the greater stresses rifle cartridges put on it.
    H&R ended up under Remington because, as you stated, they were acquired by Marlin, which was on quite the popular upswing at the time (didn't last long).
    When Remington acquired Marlin, H&R came along as part of the acquisition. Think of it as a "2 fer" package. If you want one, you get both.
    Remington shut down H&R in May of 2015, but from what I've heard from H&R owners of guns made around that time, the guns were of very poor quality by then and staff/management at H&R was pretty much non-existent.
    The website is still up because (last I heard) management is still saying "we're restructuring".
    Would be nice to see them back, and as they once were, but after 3+ years and still nothing to show for it, the chances of that happening have worn very thin.
     
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  3. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson
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    I have a late H&R pardner circa 2014 / 2015 and it works just fine.
    The fit is on par with the older models....the stock is laminate and the finish is almost a parkerized finish.
    ( I do like the stained hard wood and case coloring on the older models better )
    But the gun itself as I said works and locks up fine...its a 20 gauge model with a 26 inch barrel and modified choke...
    Andy
     
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  4. DeanMk

    DeanMk
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    Consider yourself lucky, Andy. A lot of people didn't experience that.
     
  5. gmerkt

    gmerkt
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    You're quite right, my bad, I misspoke. Main point, shotgun frame and rifle frame have their specific applications. I believe the rifle frames were heat treated, the shotgun were not. Also, the shotgun frames may have larger firing pin apertures. With the passage of time, the manufacturer got more restrictive on which frames they would fit accessory barrels to. At one time, you could get lower pressure centerfire bbls. fit to shotgun frame but that was discontinued. Then, they wouldn't fit rifle bbls. to any frame prior to a given date. Now of course that program is all done.

    One time when I called the NEF factory, the lady on the phone referred to the frame as the "Bay State." Huh? She explained, when viewed from the left side, the frame is vaguely shaped like the outline of Massachusetts where the guns were made. Mass. is referred to as the Bay State, a nick-name such as Evergreen State.

    Seems like I recall reading that when they closed out the NEF factory in Mass. and removed equipment to Ilion, NY, employees were offered relocation. Only two or three took them up on it. So any H&R 1871 made at Ilion wouldn't have been produced by the same seasoned work crew that had made them at the previous location.

    The parent company, now called Remington Outdoors is undergoing bankruptcy restructuring. Which of course is a gray financial cloud that likely dooms any resuscitation of H&R 1871, I'd imagine. My reading is that former creditors of Remington are now owners of the company; their management focus will be getting their money back out as quickly as possible. Bringing back what is essentially a niche market product doesn't seem like it will fit into those kinds of plans.
     
  6. DeanMk

    DeanMk
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    So what happened to Freedom Arms?
    Remington was part of them.
    I think Winchester was at one time, too (this would be before the advent of USRAC).
    Some say that's when troubles began for Remington.
     
  7. gmerkt

    gmerkt
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    The Freedom Group is a holding company that owned Remington as well as Marlin and NEF/H&R as we've discussed but also a manufacturer of silencers, DPMS and Bushmaster black rifle manufacturers, Dakota Arms, Barnes Bullets and probably some others I can't think of now. The Freedom Group was controlled by Cerberus Capital Management, a private equity firm that is quite famous or infamous (think words like, "corporate raider" and "take-over firm").

    Cerberus through Freedom Arms targeted the gun industry for acquisition when companies like the old Remington firm were in financial trouble, got them in deals. Then President Obama was elected and the country went on a guns and ammo buying spree that lasted 8 years and companies in the firearms business made a lot of money, for a while. Toward the end of this buying spree, another spree began and that was the mass school yard shooting spree. The political fall-out from these shootings sprinkled over the firearms industry. Then President Trump was elected and gun/ammo buying declined. Freedom Arms got into a lot of debt, then went into bankruptcy. I don't know all the details, the bankruptcy I believe has been mostly settled with the previous lenders to Freedom Group getting pro-rated chunks of ownership in the newly-named holding company, Remington Outdoors.

    I don't think there was ever a connection between anything Winchester and Freedom Group. That's a completely different story. The firearms industry is a repeating (nice pun) story of boom and bust with companies being bought and sold with the vagaries of finance. The original Winchester Repeating Arms Co. went bankrupt in 1931. The Olin Corporation bought Winchester, ran it until 1980. In that year, Olin sold the company to a group of Winchester employees and that company was organized as US Repeating Arms. But Olin retained the copyrighted name and trademarks which they continue to license out (it's way more profitable to rake in royalties than to run manufacturing plants). USRA went out of business in 1989. Next, the holding company that makes FN and Browning stuff took up the cause, ran the Winchester plant until about 2006, then closed it. Since then, firearms bearing the Winchester name have been made in South Carolina and Portugal. Also Japan but that started pre-Belgian ownership.

    There is a Freedom Arms, in Wyoming, I think but I don't believe that's the one you mean since we started off by discussing H&R.

    Well, Remington Arms was already in pretty deep financial trouble around 2007 when acquired by Freedom Arms. You look back on business history, the firearms industry has been plagued by losses. All of the big makers have changed ownership more than once, many have declared bankruptcy serial times. Boom and bust cycles have repeated with the beginning and ending of wars, etc. One definition of capitalism is it's the right to lose money. If the business history of the big companies is scary, take a look at the smaller operators who've gone bust, examples might be Randall, AMT, the original Kimber Co., the list is long. Investors and owners lose money, but look at it a different way. While they are in the manufacturing process, they are generating income for workers, sometimes for long periods of time. Even when a company is just breaking even and in trouble, it's the profit that's troubling, not the gross, because the latter is feeding families. And consumers do wind up with guns out of the deal.
     
  8. DeanMk

    DeanMk
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    Thanks for the update gmerkt. I didn't know all that happened so long ago.

    ...now, getting back on subject....

    I don't think these have been posted, but there's a few (VERY few! :mad:) hunting videos featuring singles.
    Here's a couple (mind the volume knob, the music in the second one is kinda loud)....


     
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  9. The Heretic

    The Heretic
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  10. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson
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    That's kinda neat....I'd rather have a updated Ithaca Auto & Burglar shotgun ....
    Something that can take 2 3/4 shells and in 20 gauge...just cause I like 20 gauge....:D
    ( And yeah I know that its not a single shot...but it is my thread....:D )
    Andy
     
  11. etrain16

    etrain16
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    Fun little accessory for a 12 gauge break-barrel single shot shotgun - the Chiappa X-Caliber adapter set. I bought one used (but looked brand new) a few years back, and it's a great addition to the single shot shotgun. I've used them out to 50 yards and the accuracy is acceptable. A little more practice and I think you could do 100 yards. Nice too if you ever found yourself short on one kind of ammo but had another available.

    new_chiappa_xcaliber__28718.1389289146.1280.1280.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
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  12. raftman

    raftman
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    Never really been a shotgun guy whatsoever but did buy into the common wisdom that everyone should have a 12 gauge shotgun. To that end, I bought a Baikal MP-18 single shot for something around $100 quite a few years ago. Turned out to be surprisingly fun and I’ve liked it enough to shoot it quite regularly and have never really felt the need to upgrade to something with a higher capacity.

    I don’t think they’re being imported anymore so there’s also that bit of satisfaction of having bought something when it was cheap and available before the opportunity disappeared.
     
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  13. DeanMk

    DeanMk
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    There's a lesson to be learned from that post.
    Glad you found something that agrees with you, raftman. =)


    Dean
     
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  14. JD Manning

    JD Manning
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    I love single shot shotguns I have over 40 variations of the Winchester single shot.
     
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  15. DeanMk

    DeanMk
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    JD,

    I understand the Model 37, and its varients, are fairly collectible.
    You should do a pictorial thread showing and explaining the differences with the variations you have.
    Should be an interesting read.
     
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  16. JD Manning

    JD Manning
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    Well most of them are in Iowa that's where I store most of my stuff but I can go through a little history and post pics later. Winchester started off with the model 20 small frame break open .410 also came in a youth kit, the model 41 .410 bolt this came in a deluxe as well as both 2 3/4 and 3 inch chambers and the model 36 .9mm before they started the model 37 line. The model 37 comes in a variety of barrel lengthes depending on gauge. The early ones had Winchester in red on bottom of the receiver known as red letters. And the very first ones had a space in the break lever known as a pig tail. They then bought the cooey plant in Canada cooey produced a model 84 which winchester changed into the winchestern Western cooey 840. Then winchester made the cheaper version 370. They ditched that and made a heavier version known as the 840. Winchester also made this gun under the Sears name. To boost sales they updated the 840 with a gold trigger and nicer woods to make the 37a which came with 2 different scrolls on the receiver. I have all 18 of the 37a series
     
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  17. DeanMk

    DeanMk
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    So the model 84 was produced before the advent of the 370?
    I was under the impression it was the other way around.
     
  18. JD Manning

    JD Manning
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    I also like old small frame .410s and H&R folding single shots. I actually have a 24 yes 24 gauge
     
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  19. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson
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    Cool little Flintlock Fowler of mine...circa 1800...
    410ish in bore size...
    Andy
    DSC06822.jpg
     
  20. DeanMk

    DeanMk
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    You have a beautiful collection, Andy.
     
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