Single shot shotguns anybody else like 'em?

Discussion in 'Shotgun Discussion' started by AndyinEverson, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. Joe13

    Joe13
    NW of Vancouver
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    I'm a big 870 fan.

    Got a single shot just cuz and I really enjoyed packing a shotgun that was half the weight of my 870's around the woods last time out.
     
  2. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson
    Everson, Wa.
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    The weight of the shotgun can be very important...Like Joe was saying a single shot can weigh a lot less than a pump ....Says the guy ( me ) who just got a new to him Wingmaster....:D
    Be that as it may...Shotguns of any sort are handy to have around and shoot.....
    Andy
     
  3. DeanMk

    DeanMk
    Poulsbo, Wa.
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    Just found this...



    ...looks like another Hatsun / Huglu rebadge/copy. Nice to see something new with a decent length barrle on it, anyway (and you can't argue with the price).
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  4. gmerkt

    gmerkt
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    Quoting myself. I should add that I've made the 28 gauge single shot a more versatile weapon than a mere bird gun. 28 gauge is the only shot shell that I load at present. By hand with a little shell vise, an arbor press to get the wad seated with proper pressure, and a roll crimp tool. I load what I cannot buy. I load #4 buckshot; .54 round lead balls; Foster slugs when I could get them; and steel flechettes (yes, they work).
     
  5. DeanMk

    DeanMk
    Poulsbo, Wa.
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    gmerkt,

    Where did you find 28 ga. Foster's and how much did they weigh?
     
  6. shap

    shap
    Forest Grove, OR
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    I got a good deal on the 20 gauge Chiappa 8" riffled inserts, for 38sp/357, 45colt, 9mm, and 45acp. I been using my Stevens 301 20ga with these, shot a bunch of 357 and 45 colt out of it. Surprisingly accurate and fun to shoot with these inserts.

    I am looking forward to whenever Midland Arms starts putting out their centerfire barrels. Then I'll buy one of their 12 ga 18" backpack single shots and pick up a centerfire barrel, hopefully in something like 243 or 30-30.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
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  7. DeanMk

    DeanMk
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    Shap,

    If the receiver of the Midland is constructed anything like the old H&R's were, you might be wise to pick up a Midland single shot rifle, then get a shotgun barrel for it.
    The shotgun receiver may not be able to handle the pressure the rifle barrel would put on it.
    H&R went so far as to NOT sell anyone a rifle barrel for one of their shotguns. You HAD to buy a Handi-Rifle then you could get a shotty barrel for it.
    The stresses reason I just gave you is what they told me.

    ….might wanna write'em and ask.



    Dean
     
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  8. shap

    shap
    Forest Grove, OR
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    Midland hasn't come out with the riffle barrels yet. The info out there on the interwebs is that they will be coming out with riffle barrels soon that will fit on their current shotgun barrel receivers. Maybe the pressure issue testing of the riffle barrels on their current shotgun receivers is why they riffle barrels are not out yet
     
  9. DeanMk

    DeanMk
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    If the Midland shotgun is very light, like 4-5 lbs or less, I think your best bet would be to get the rifle (once they are for sale) and get a shotgun barrel for that gun.
    The weight will be your clue.
    If the rifle is 6-8 lbs., you'll definitely need to do that....the extra weight comes from a much more solid receiver.
    Keep an eye out and see how things progress, if you can.


    Dean
     
  10. shap

    shap
    Forest Grove, OR
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    Dean, from the media they have put out Midland is developing riffle barrels that are compatible with their current shotgun receivers. I believe their model is for all of their guns (receivers and barrels) to be interchangeable with one another. Not a separate receiver for riffles that can accept a shotgun barrel and a different receiver for shotgun. Their shotgun receivers are currently milled from steel forgings: Tough, Versatile, and Budget-Friendly, Midland's Backpack Shotgun Might be Your Best Hiking Companion
     
  11. DeanMk

    DeanMk
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    Fair enough. As long as they say so. Just make sure they're still saying the same thing at the time the rifles and their barrels are released.


    Dean
     
  12. gmerkt

    gmerkt
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    I used to get Foster slugs for 28 ga. from Ballistic Products Inc. But they don't sell them anymore. The first ones I bought maybe 10 or 12 years ago. Then a couple of years ago, I contacted the company to see if I could get more. They said, "We've never sold those." I sent them a copy of their old paper catalog to show that they in fact had. Of course that really didn't do any good because they still don't have them now.

    The Foster slugs I did get from BPI weighed 273 gr. They still sell round ball and carrier wad sets. Those round balls weigh 183 gr. They are only .50, not quite as large as I'd like. You need to know what size choke you have. My NEF has a modified choke, which I think is .538. Speer makes a .535 lead round ball. You can get a Lee mold #90456 which is round ball .535, as cast might drop a little bigger. You can buy appropriate wads for round ball from BPI.

    Now then, there is the world of sabot ("say-bow") slugs. Those are sub caliber that leave the barrel in a plastic carrier. One of these I've tried is made by Traditions, lead with sabot, 240 gr. I bought some fancy Hornady sabot slugs, copper jacketed bullets but they were kinda spendy and I haven't loaded any of those up yet. The Traditions sabots worked fine. You get two hits on the target, one from the slug, another way off to one side which is the plastic sabot hitting. Some other companies make these in nominal sizes for black powder that fit the 28 ga. You have a bit more leeway with a sabot as to bore size because the plastic has more give.

    I've got data to load these odd-balls with that I've personally fired. Which I will furnish privately but not in the clear on a forum.
     
  13. DeanMk

    DeanMk
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    According to the chart I have saved on my computer, you're right.
    Modified choke for a 28 ga. is a .012" restriction, yielding a muzzle bore size of .538".
    I wonder if you could use .54 Minie balls?

    ...another thought: Brenneke makes a 28 ga. slug round. I wonder if they'd sell some of their slugs?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019 at 9:15 PM
  14. gmerkt

    gmerkt
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    I think .538 is a nominal size, that is, the ideal but they do vary. I saw one chart that said +/- with a few thou. either way. The bearing surface of a lead ball is very limited, it will easily swage down some in a shotgun bore. Most slugs that I've seen have ribs or flutes that do this same thing. As a youngster, I fired .410 slugs out of a full choke bore with no gagging.

    .54 Minie ball in 28 ga. This I haven't tried. Yet. But you'd have to use the correct design wad for it. Because at .54, there wouldn't be room in the hull for a wad with petals. The old BPI Foster slugs were undersized so they'd fit in a wad with petals. They were kind of like a sabot in that way. The BPI wad for round ball doesn't have petals to take up room in the side walls of a hull, so you're okay with .535 lead balls in there. But that wad is long, might be too long for use with Minie balls. Or not, this is another arena for experimentation. Which is pretty safe with shotgun stuff, fairly low pressures. So long as you're sensible about it.

    I didn't know that Brenneke made slugs in 28 ga. I'll have to look into that.
     
  15. DeanMk

    DeanMk
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    I suppose you could cut the pedals off the wad. That should allow the use of the .54 slug, or you could go with a smaller caliber, but what one? .50? .45?
    As for the correct wad, you're right about that.
    I wonder if you couldn't take some small scraps of paper and crumple it into a "dome-ish" shape that would fit inside the hollow base of the minie ball, then soak it with an inexpensive glue-like substance that would both stick it to the wad and yield a firm shape for the minie ball to fit into (of course, wait for the glue to harden before final fitting of the minie ball).
    If successful, this would allow you to modify any wad into the type typically used for shotgun slugs.
     
  16. gmerkt

    gmerkt
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    I'd say .50 which is about the arrangement that the old BPI Foster slugs were. Those loaded into a plastic wad with petals.

    The plastic BPI wad used with round ball has no petals, this is called a Brush Wad.

    You're only limited by your imagination and common sense. BPI sells all kinds of wad materials and most are available in 28 gauge. For Minie ball, you could use a fiber nitro card over the powder, then some arrangement of filler wad over that. I don't know that you'd need to fill the base of the Minie. You might even get some obturation effect but with the wadding in place, maybe not. You'd put an overshot card over the Minie then roll crimp. BPI sells a book that is all about loading slugs.

    Wads from BPI are pretty inexpensive but they only sell them in bags of 500. So you'd need to spend about $8.00 for the nitro cards, for example. But you'd have a lifetime supply thereafter.

    "Inexpensive glue-like substance." Called Water Glass, formerly used for sealing chicken's eggs for storage. I used water glass to seal the hulls of brass shot shells. You can buy a quart of water glass for a few dollars. As I said, I don't think you'd need to fill in the base of a Minie ball if the right wad was used.

    I looked up the Brenneke 28 gauge slugs, those have a nice piston-like base built onto the slug. Well-ribbed slug that should be no problem even with full choke.
     
  17. DeanMk

    DeanMk
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    Wait a minute....I'm confused....you mention "pedals" through all your posts. This brings to mind a one piece wad.
    Now you mention fiber/card wads, which are something different.
    Which is it?
    My comments on a building a paper stabilizing nub glued to the wad to locate the minie ball is based on how one piece slug wads are made, where they have a protrusion that fits into part of the hollow at the base of the Foster slug.
    It helps located the slug when going down the barrel and also helps stabilize it in flight, as during part of its flight outside of the barrel, it acts like the tail of a kite....that is, until the wad and slug separate.
    If you did this mod to a regular ol' one piece wad (and cut off the pedals), you should be able to use a .54 minie ball with success in your 28..
    ...OR...
    ...leave the pedals on and use a minie ball bullet of a smaller caliber (seems like it would make attaching the stabilizing nub a bit harder, though).
    Of course, maybe the pedals themselves would act like the stabilizing nub, at least while the slug is traveling down the barrel.
    The "inexpensive glue-like substance" I was thinking of was a compote we used in elementary school.
    It was comprised of water, flour and.....something else that I can no longer remember.
    End result was the stuff we used to make paper mache objects with during the times we were being taught about art.
    My thinking was that it was all household items, so you probably all the ingredients already sitting around, thus "inexpensive".
    Water Glass is new to me. Never heard the term before.
    Is that something you buy in a store? It says "Water Glass" on the label?
     
  18. gmerkt

    gmerkt
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    Plastic wads are usually one piece. Most wads used for shot loads incorporate petals (as in the petals of a flower) or fingers that encase the actual load. This is the shot cup.

    There are other kinds of wad materials. Such as paper, felt and cork. You can really customize shot loads with paper and cork wad materials because you can vary the height of the load using multiples of wads. BPI sells all kinds of these non-plastic materials. Which was all that was used before plastic wads came out in the 1960's. Back when I was loading full brass hulls, a guy told me that in the olden days, old hornet's nests were sometimes used for wad materials. I've also heard that dried leaves have been used. I wonder about getting proper compression with those materials.

    A true Foster slug has a hollow base with no attached wad. The Brenneke design typically has a wad that remains attached for a time after firing. As I understand it, you don't want to attach anything to the hollow slug. The reason it's hollow is to place the mass in the front which has a stabilizing effect. So the Foster slug just has a wad that pushes against the edge of the base, the hollow has no support. I can't say for the stabilization, but if you used a Minie ball, you wouldn't need a wad that attached. You'd use a card wad to push it out if you were going to match barrel size as closely as possible. Or you'd use a slightly undersized Minie placed in a plastic wad with a shot cup (the petals).

    This is how my grandmother made common paste, baking flour and water mixed together.

    They used to sell water glass (sodium silicate) at drug stores. I think you can get it on ebay or Amazon. Look up on Google, "how to make sodium silicate" maybe you can roll your own. The last jar I had did say water glass on the label.

    The Traditions Performance Firearms slugs that I've tried are made for muzzle loaders. They are .50 and come in a plastic carrier like a sabot or wad. They have a solid base and no problems with accuracy in my 28 ga. They are kinda expensive, $12 for 20 pieces. I don't worry too much about using projectiles that are discharged in a carrier and are undersize to the bore. We're not talking about long range shooting here. My goal is to turn a light bird gun into something that may be used if necessary for defense. Out to 50 yards.

    Remember, sabot projectiles are used in high velocity ammo in army tank guns. Which are actually large rifles for precision shooting. You can also buy some .30 centerfire ammo that shoots a .224 encased in a sabot.
     
  19. DeanMk

    DeanMk
    Poulsbo, Wa.
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    I agree. 50 yards would be about the limit I would think one could accurately place a Foster...and that's pushing it.
    The .30 rounds that shoot the saboted .224 bullets were produced by Remington and called "Accelerator".
    I remember when they came out. They were available in .30-06 and .30-30. I believe .308 was also available early on.
    These days, you can buy a bag of 100 Accelerator sabots for $15, online.
    Unfortunately, I found your last post laborious to read and kind of a waste of space, as you seemed to miss most of my points and simply regurgitated what you were quoting in your own words.
    At this point, I think I will bid you adieu and wish you well on your future endeavors.
    You seem to have things well in hand.
    Good luck.


    Dean
     

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