Should Oregon carry out death penalties?

[Boomer50]

It is only a deterrent if it is carried out. With the current and previous Governor (ying/yang) refusing to carry out the law that the citizens of Oregon voted in. the only thing the criminal will receive is a lengthy stay at the Oregon State Penitentiary Spa.

SPA? Clearly you have never been there. I was there as a visitor in a citizen review committee. If you had seen the tiers, and not just the reception area, you might not even think of it as some kind of a "spa." Personally I think that "life-without-parole" is a CRUELER punishment than simple death---and at least a half a million dollars cheaper for the taxpayers, considering all of the mandatory appeals.

 

[deadeye]

SPA? Clearly you have never been there. I was there as a visitor in a citizen review committee. If you had seen the tiers, and not just the reception area, you might not even think of it as some kind of a "spa." Personally I think that "life-without-parole" is a CRUELER punishment than simple death---and at least a half a million dollars cheaper for the taxpayers, considering all of the mandatory appeals.

And there is where the problems begin. Found guilty get one appeal then carry out sentence next day that is how it should be done.

 

[soberups]

I have a problem with our State being the instrument of a person's death.

Are there crimes that are so heinous that death would be morally justified as a punishment? Yes....but I do not trust our State or its legal system to make such decisions. There are simply too many documented cases of innocent people being convicted based upon faulty evidence or because they lack the money to hire a decent lawyer for me to be OK with the idea of our legal system carrying out a sentence of death. I believe the idea of "punishment" or "vengeance" should be best left to God, and that the role of the criminal justice system should be to (1) rehabilitate those who are deserving and (2) protect society by permanently segregating those who are not. If this means that some truly evil sick monster gets to spend the remaining 40 years of his life in the (relative) comfort of a prison cell watching TV rather than being executed for a heinous crime, I can accept that; I have absolute faith that he will be properly judged and dealt with by God once he dies.

 

[soberups]

I also find the current debate over the proper method of execution to be indicative of society's cowardice in regards to capital punishment.

Methods such as the electric chair, the gas chamber or lethal injection have nothing at all to do with being "humane" and everything to do with our society's moral conflicts over the death penalty and our squeamishness and desire for the death we are inflicting upon another to be neat and clean and antiseptic. Death is seldom that way. The most efficient, reliable and painless method of ending the life of a person would be to simply shoot them in the back of the head at point blank range with a high powered rifle, but that is a bit too messy and graphic for society's tender sensibilities so we go to ridiculous lengths to create other methods that are actually far less humane and far more prone to problems and failures.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

I also find the current debate over the proper method of execution to be indicative of society's cowardice in regards to capital punishment.

Methods such as the electric chair, the gas chamber or lethal injection have nothing at all to do with being "humane" and everything to do with our society's moral conflicts over the death penalty and our squeamishness and desire for the death we are inflicting upon another to be neat and clean and antiseptic. Death is seldom that way. The most efficient, reliable and painless method of ending the life of a person would be to simply shoot them in the back of the head at point blank range with a high powered rifle, but that is a bit too messy and graphic for society's tender sensibilities so we go to ridiculous lengths to create other methods that are actually far less humane and far more prone to problems and failures.

Rope or a blade are both reusable.
Heck, some would even say "green" in todays standards.
Humane death penalties are a joke.
The assailant should know and show fear before he dies.
But I agree with your last post,we should no longer let the state or court system choose.. They have proven themselves to be sloppy, greedy and in the wrong more times than any one man could dare count.
Ive seen them trump up charges just to ensure a plea.. And then to only stick the full bill to someone utterly bankrupting them.. To which most lower income folks turn to lives of crime, quick cash or drugs.

Guilty until proven innocent.
And why must we still call the judge "your honor".. This tradition places the judge in a higher position than man or god. I understand its from days past.. But I cant stand it.
Sucking up to the person that decides your fate is not a fair trial.
The whole system is flawed.. However it wont be too long before it all goes belly up.

 

[soberups]

What's that got to do with anything. Our WA State Governor recently announced that nobody would be executed on his watch. So much for what the voters wanted. Hope everyone remembers that at the next election (hah!).

Argue all you want about whether it's a deterrent but it sure cures recidivism. Anyone want a great example of why there is a Death Penalty, read up on the Charles Rodman Campbell case. He even has his own Wikipedia page.

I'm not doubting for one moment that Campbell was a subhuman troll who deserved to die, but he could just as easily have been left to rot for the rest of his life in a Supermax cell. To my mind, life in solitary with no chance of parole is no different from a death sentence, except that we are allowing a Higher Power to administer the true and final justice. Our job as a society should be to segregate these people for the rest of their lives, not to extract vengeance or retribution. That is God's job and He is way better at than we as a society could ever hope to be.

 

[rick benjamin]

Tripwire words:
penalty, deterrent.

Death sentence.
It's the state's duty to carry out the sentence.
When carried out, the convicted perpetrator is gone.

Negative cash flow ends.
Air is cleaner.
Birds sing
children play
dogs chase squirrels
squirrels chase joggers
Global climate changes for the better

 

[rick benjamin]

I'm not doubting for one moment that Campbell was a subhuman troll who deserved to die, but he could just as easily have been left to rot for the rest of his life in a Supermax cell. To my mind, life in solitary with no chance of parole is no different from a death sentence, except that we are allowing a Higher Power to administer the true and final justice. Our job as a society should be to segregate these people for the rest of their lives, not to extract vengeance or retribution. That is God's job and He is way better at than we as a society could ever hope to be.

How do we "allow" God to do anything? Does God have a Start button, ignition switch, etc? How may I assign God a list of tasks that he must follow? God has assigned US tasks and rules. Society has chosen to turn away from God's rules.
Your perception of prison life is not congruent with reality.
A fine book on life in prison "Walls, Wire, Bars and Souls" by Peter Grant. Society does segregate them.
The STATE does not execute as an act of vengence. If it did, execution might look more like post #4, thanks Benny!
Finally, God said we are created, and live forever. There is Heaven with God, vs the lake of fire, forever torment, which burns forever. If we are fortunate, we get about 80 years to decide, then God judges.

 

[Martini_Up]

"carry out" is a very different question than "should have". Lots of fail in this thread.

 

[BigStick]

My best argument for the death penalty is guys like Brevik in Norway. He killed 77 people and will only spend 21 years in prison. That is less then 3 and a half MONTHS per person killed. Is that what people against the death penalty call "Justice"?

 

[marty8587]

Wow!!! This is getting Deep!

 

[coop44]

no method of death is actually "humane" except maybe old age, I would prefer the term "painless and expedient". The only reason we as a society have grown away from hangings and firing squads is they tend to be public spectacles, and upset the sensitive hand wringing liberals among us. Wouldn't bother me in the least bit if they were televised with mandatory viewing requirements.

 

[coyote223]

DemokkkRats don't want to put their voting stock to death. They need them released to keep them in power,,,

 

[soberups]

My best argument for the death penalty is guys like Brevik in Norway. He killed 77 people and will only spend 21 years in prison. That is less then 3 and a half MONTHS per person killed. Is that what people against the death penalty call "Justice"?

There are no "life without parole" sentences in Norway, which I see as a flaw in their legal system. Regardless, he will still answer to a Higher Power for his crimes one day...

 

[ARKLITE881South]

Wow!!! This is getting Deep!

TOO DEEP, a simple Yes, or No, I vote YES!

 

[RicInOR]

Another reason to oppose the death penalty

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2014/05/13/witnesses-lied-murder-case/9039737/

Witnesses: We lied in '92 East Nashville murder case

Lets see - that is 22 years of guilt ...

But wait, it gets worse --

"...because of pressure from police."

But wait ....

"First there was a note in a prosecutor's file that was never turned over to defense attorneys casting doubt on all of the juvenile witnesses in the case." ""Good case but for most of Ws (witnesses) are juveniles who have already lied repeatedly," the prosecutor's shorthand note read."

"Beyond that, the shotgun police say Wilson used to kill Luckett didn't match the shells found at the murder scene, according to a Tennessee Bureau of Investigation report."


Pressured or not, as time passed those boys could have come forward - but didn't.



Timeline of events:

• Sept. 15, 1992: Christopher Luckett is found shot dead under a chainlink fence in East Nashville.
• Feb. 2, 1993: Cyrus Deville Wilson is indicted in Luckett's death.
• Feb. 1, 1994: Wilson is found guilty of first-degree murder, largely on the eyewitness testimony of juvenile witnesses. Wilson is sentenced to life in prison.
• Aug. 26, 2008: Wilson obtains a previously undiscovered, hand-written, 1992 note from prosecutors about witnesses that says, "good case but for most of Ws are juveniles who have already lied repeatedly."
• April 20, 2012: The Tennessee Supreme Court rules the note isn't admissible in court or enough to force a new trial.
• Nov. 22, 2013: Rodriguez Lee and Rashime Williams, then 16 and 17, recant their 1994 testimony, saying they lied because they were worried police would arrest them for Luckett's murder if they didn't play along.

 

[RicInOR]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...istical-debate-over-the-death-penalty/370059/

 

[Ligito]

bubblegum 'em and feed 'em beans.
Oh, they do that, already.

 

[RicInOR]

Yet another example of why I must continue to oppose the death penalty.


" <broken link removed> So this guy was in jail for over two decades because self-assured experts turned out not to know what they were talking about. "His case is one of dozens around the U.S. to come under scrutiny because of entrenched but now-discredited beliefs about how arson can be detected. The Arson Research Project at the Monterey College of Law in California has highlighted at least 31 convictions based at least partly on debunked fire investigations, including that of a Texas man executed in 2004, and experts believe there are many more. . . . 'A lot of this was just guesswork and voodoo.'"
Hi-light mine.
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/190766/

 

[beavertonbuck]

Ric is putting up a lot of good stuff but I think the issue might actually be two separate issues and the interested parties are talking past one another.

Do certain people need to die? Of course. In the perfect world if a man raped or murdered someone they would be castrated with a rusty knife and then have their head placed on a spike so everyone in town could be put on notice. I have no sympathy for these people and when anti-death penalties advocates point out that so-and-so gasped for air for 20 seconds and how cruel it is I want to puke. What he did was cruel and he deserves to die just as horribly as his victim.

In a flawed justice system can you support the death penalty. I say no because I would rather guilty people spend the rest of their life in prison rather than one innocent person be executed. The government owns the justice system and while most people act honorably there are still mistakes. Worse still are cops/proscutors who become more worried about arrests/convictions that the truth.