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When punishment means a stay in a building with three meals a day, hot shower and not having to make decisions for yourself... Sentencing is no longer a deterrent.

Murder (no accidental), but hard up murder should be. I also believe it should be carried out rather quickly, nobody should sit on death row for 15 years at 1 million + per year to tax payers money and wait for their execution. Do the crime, do the time (or pay for it).
 
I go to church with a prison guard. He said like 60% of the dudes in prison do each other. Cause they claim pounding a dude in prison doesn't mean there gay. Cause it's in prison. That gives you an idea of jacked the prison scum bags are.
I am pretty stocky, with 10 years of wrestling, and many many years of football, and mean older brothers. Prison scares me.
 
in my opinion(and a co worker/friend/ member to this site), after the perverts and child molesters get "pounded" in prison they should contain them in a giant dome forest. then, tags should be issued and we get to kill those bast#%^$. there is NO crime more inhumane, wrong, heartbreakingly worse than what those disgusting waste of air good for nothing people do to children. death to every last one of them. no need to hear "their side of the story" because at that point theres no coming back from what they have done.
 
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I am s strong supporter of the death penalty and I openly declare such, however remember this the rules / laws we judge others by today we may be judged by tomorrow. I believe in the death penalty but i also believe in ensuring the person did the crime and not just hearsay or I think he did it. There must be indisputable concrete evidence of the crime before we take s persons ultimate right away from them
 
I stand by my previous statement, No death penalty.

Man cleared of murder walks free after 28 years in prison.


" the case was marred by serious misconduct by the prosecution, an ineffective defense and a witness who supplied false testimony. "

"At a 2013 hearing, forensic specialists testified that physical evidence contradicted his earlier account of events. "
So he had to endure 6 more years of incarceration after that hearing.

"Wilson is the 12th person exonerated by the prosecutor's Conviction Integrity Unit. Unit chief Patricia Cummings said in court that it was time for Wilson to be allowed to "go home a free man, and that he go home with an apology."

How much $$ are the tax payers going to have to pony up to settle with Mr. Wilson?

See also:
 
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4.1% of those convicted of murder estimated to be innocent as a conservative estimate, says the study.

From what I've seen in the news, mostly people get exonerated only if there is undeniable proof of innocence, such as DNA evidence. Not merely no evidence of guilt. Most murders dont have DNA evidence. Eyewitness evidence is a huge problem. Many people misremember totally, others lie. My guess is that likely 10% or more of convicted murderers are innocent.

The more horrid the crime, the more political pressure on cops and local sheriffs, courts, and politicos to invent stuff, conceal evidence of innocence, railroad someone.

Given the inaccuracy of conviction for murder, no way can I support the death penalty.
 
I was under impression that armed citizens cure recidivism.
No. We are much more likely to chase bad guys away than kill them. I think we prevent a lot of attacks on ourselves or innocent others, but actually shoot very few bad guys. We don't have to. And in most cases we couldn't legitimately shoot bad guy even if we wanted since, when confronted with gun he runs, so it's no longer self defense. Or he starts backing away with his hands up yelping "Lady, be cool with that gun!" And then runs. Or he stops trying to get into the window he was trying to get into, knowing the place was occupied, and vanishes in the darkness. Or he breaks off his attack on the woman he was trying to rape in the parking lot behind your apartment and runs.
 
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No. Not because I have a problem with bad guys dying but rather that the criminal justice system is too skewed toward convicting people. As an example in the last nine years 44 people on death row have ben exonorated.

I think I have a better solution. People that commit murder should be sent to maximum security prison and have to sit in a cell for 23 hours with no amenities other than food, water, and bathroom facilities. This to me would be worse than death.
Problem is, yes that would be worse than death for many. And many humans go permenently insane in complete isolation of the sort you describe. And at the least, 4% of them are totally innocent.
 
Problem is, yes that would be worse than death for many. And many humans go permenently insane in complete isolation of the sort you describe. And at the least, 4% of them are totally innocent.
This. Solitary confinement causes any psychiatric problems or tendencies hiding beneath the surface to rise up like kraken. It can, and does, permanently break people. They are of no use to society after that. That's not punishment or retribution, it's torture.

To answer the thread, I'm only for the death penalty in 100% certain proof cases...like a murder was caught on tape, no masks, voice authenticated, DNA authenticated. Anything less than that and the Innocence Project has found someone in that situation simply boned by the system. I'd hate for that poor bastard to be you or I.

Regarding justice in general, our system needs an overhaul. We need to decide what our goal is: Are we trying to punish people (makes us feel better inside but punishments don't deter crime, so there's that) or are we trying to rehabilitate people (you won't get the warm and fuzzies, but society may function better)?

This wonky crossing of the two we're currently doing is completely failing at both.
 
There is no doubt that we have made mistakes in our judicial system. We have sentenced and held people who were innocent and we have, unfortunately, probably also executed some that were innocent.

There are, however, most certainly some cases where the guilt of a person is 100% assured. Either because the person admitted to the crime or there is an abundance of physical evidence such as clear video of the person committing the crime. For these cases where the guilt is certain, not only should we carry out the death penalty but it should be carried out quickly. Say 72 hours from arrest to arraignment to trial to appeal and then LIGHT THEM UP!

And ok, 72 hours probably isn't realistic. I'm not talking about anything that would impede a person's rights and/or their due process. There should be sufficient time for their attorneys to prepare for trial and to conduct an appeal. But this notion of appeal after appeal and a person sits on death row for years is ridiculous. :rolleyes:
 
This. Solitary confinement causes any psychiatric problems or tendencies hiding beneath the surface to rise up like kraken. It can, and does, permanently break people. They are of no use to society after that. That's not punishment or retribution, it's torture.

To answer the thread, I'm only for the death penalty in 100% certain proof cases...like a murder was caught on tape, no masks, voice authenticated, DNA authenticated. Anything less than that and the Innocence Project has found someone in that situation simply boned by the system. I'd hate for that poor bastard to be you or I.

Regarding justice in general, our system needs an overhaul. We need to decide what our goal is: Are we trying to punish people (makes us feel better inside but punishments don't deter crime, so there's that) or are we trying to rehabilitate people (you won't get the warm and fuzzies, but society may function better)?

This wonky crossing of the two we're currently doing is completely failing at both.
I mostly agree. But I think the issue of wrongful convictions and death as well as other punishments are inherently intertwined. So its useful to have comments addressing both. And comments reminding those in favor of death penalty for murderers that a lot of those "murderers" are totally innocent.
 
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If they're brave enough to kill innocent babies, it ain't a stretch to kill convicted criminals. :rolleyes:

Eventually, they will be wanting to kill innocent gun owners anyway,,,:confused:
 
And comments reminding those in favor of death penalty for murderers that a lot of those "murderers" are totally innocent.
It is often stated that "It is better that 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man is condemned." I think that the problem with this argument is that it only looks at one side of the equation. Too often murderers are released after serving a number of years only to reoffend, sometimes more than once. What about the innocent people that suffer because convicted murderers get released?

If our system could guarantee that murderers never got released to prey on society again, then I would say do not execute anyone. But it doesn't.

Maybe it's better that one innocent man is condemned than 10 are released to claim 20 or 30 more victims.

Just throwing that out there.
 
Some more interesting data on relation between murders and death penalty :

Country | Homicide Rate | Death penalty
US | 4.8 | YES
Iceland | 0.3 | NO
Austria | 0.6 | NO
Switzerland | 0.7 | NO
Spain | 0.8 | NO
Germany | 0.8 | NO
Denmark | 0.9 | NO
Italy | 0.9 | NO
Canada | 1.6 | NO

Only developed "civilized" countries are listed. Now obviously there are countries out there which have lower homicide rates than US, and which may be developing, "uncivilized", etc, but have death penalty. Conclusion I want to make though - it is likely possible to deal with homicides without death penalty altogether. And you may be aware that the homicide rate in the US has been decreasing for last 20 years.

What's the diversity of those other places? Apples and Oranges...
 
Some more interesting data on relation between murders and death penalty :

Country | Homicide Rate | Death penalty
US | 4.8 | YES
Iceland | 0.3 | NO
Austria | 0.6 | NO
Switzerland | 0.7 | NO
Spain | 0.8 | NO
Germany | 0.8 | NO
Denmark | 0.9 | NO
Italy | 0.9 | NO
Canada | 1.6 | NO

Don't know how old this data is, likely pre-dates the huge influx of Asian and African immigrants into some of the European states cited. However, in general, those low homicide stat countries are relatively homogeneous societies as against the US "melting pot." Excepting Canada to some extent. BUT: Iceland, Austria, Switzerland, etc., do not have any Chicagos or Detroits.

What continues to blow my mind is the majority of people who are anti death penalty are hard core abortion supporters.

Yes, what's with this -- it's okay to kill unborn children but verboten to kill convicted murderers.

the role of the criminal justice system should be to (1) rehabilitate those who are deserving and (2) protect society by permanently segregating those who are not.

The problem with (2) above is so often "life in prison" turns out to be something less than that. In some states (like California), they let cons out on reduced sentences simply because they don't have enough space in prisons.

lethal injection

I wonder about this. When you get general anesthesia for surgery, they drift you off to sleep. When the surgery is over, you wake up with no memory of what happened. When lethal injection is used for capital punishment, shouldn't the result be something like this? I mean, the guy getting the lethal dose is drifted off to sleep but doesn't wake up. I'm sincere about this question, if the procedure is done right, shouldn't this be the result and therefore not of a "cruel and unusual" nature?

Timeline of events:
  • Sept. 15, 1992: Christopher Luckett is found shot dead under a chainlink fence in East Nashville.
  • Feb. 2, 1993: Cyrus Deville Wilson is indicted in Luckett's death.
  • Feb. 1, 1994: Wilson is found guilty of first-degree murder, largely on the eyewitness testimony of juvenile witnesses. Wilson is sentenced to life in prison.
  • Aug. 26, 2008: Wilson obtains a previously undiscovered, hand-written, 1992 note from prosecutors about witnesses that says, "good case but for most of Ws are juveniles who have already lied repeatedly."
  • April 20, 2012: The Tennessee Supreme Court rules the note isn't admissible in court or enough to force a new trial.
  • Nov. 22, 2013: Rodriguez Lee and Rashime Williams, then 16 and 17, recant their 1994 testimony, saying they lied because they were worried police would arrest them for Luckett's murder if they didn't play along.

Sincere question re. the above. I see he was paroled in 2019. Why paroled and not pardoned?

A good lawyer might be able to get him a sizable settlement, if that is any consolation for the time he's spent in.

I suspect that some recantations of testimony are false. If they lied the first time, they may lie again or get paid to do so. I think modern DNA science is probably a better basis, if available, for reversing convictions.

Cost: In 2010 it cost on average $31,286 a year per inmate (see study below). Why should we have to pay to house and feed these people for the rest of their lives? I want lower taxes and for my tax dollars to be used to benefit my society, not keeping evil people fed, housed, educated, tying up the court system..

These days capital cases typically become so long and drawn out in the courts, I'm guessing that maybe that process is more expensive that straight incarceration.

How much $$ are the tax payers going to have to pony up to settle with Mr. Wilson?

That is part of the cost of doing business for government these days. Police officers, police departments, correctional facilities, counties, states and municipalities all get sued when something goes wrong. Used to be when a con died inside, they just took him out and buried him on prison property. Nobody came and mourned. Due to the litigious nature of our modern society, there's now money in it for the "estates" of the decedents. And in this matter, those thought to have been wrongfully imprisoned.

Dead criminals never re-offend.

This. An effective deterrent to crime.

Re. the fatal shooting in Seattle this past weekend. One suspect is in custody. The police have identified and are seeking two other suspects. Of these two, one has over 50 arrests on his record and the other has over 25 arrests. In Seattle; other jurisdictions were not mentioned. The following is admittedly a generalization. But I've long had the notion that many offenders "in the system" have been allowed to fall through the cracks so many times that by the time they find themselves on death row, it's for good cause. Innocent until proven guilty, yes. But documented patterns are difficult to deny.
 
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There is no doubt that we have made mistakes in our judicial system. We have sentenced and held people who were innocent and we have, unfortunately, probably also executed some that were innocent.

There are, however, most certainly some cases where the guilt of a person is 100% assured. Either because the person admitted to the crime or there is an abundance of physical evidence such as clear video of the person committing the crime. For these cases where the guilt is certain, not only should we carry out the death penalty but it should be carried out quickly. Say 72 hours from arrest to arraignment to trial to appeal and then LIGHT THEM UP!

And ok, 72 hours probably isn't realistic. I'm not talking about anything that would impede a person's rights and/or their due process. There should be sufficient time for their attorneys to prepare for trial and to conduct an appeal. But this notion of appeal after appeal and a person sits on death row for years is ridiculous. :rolleyes:
Confessions are one of the main causes of innocent people being convicted of heinous crimes. Interogation without sleep for days can make most people say or sign anything. Basically, it's the cops torturing the accused until he confesses. Apparently not uncommon in these cases. And where the accused was physically damaged or under influence of drugs or alcohol, he may have no memory of what happened, and cops may convince him he did it. He may be so shocked and horrified and feel so guilty over what he supposedly did that he confesses as well as attempts no defense. Only if violence is completely atypical of him even if under the influence is he likely, years later, to doubt what the cops told him. Then there are some people who are mentally messed up and will confess to crimes they didn't do even if cops are not forcing anything.
 
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This. Solitary confinement causes any psychiatric problems or tendencies hiding beneath the surface to rise up like kraken. It can, and does, permanently break people. They are of no use to society after that. That's not punishment or retribution, it's torture.

To answer the thread, I'm only for the death penalty in 100% certain proof cases...like a murder was caught on tape, no masks, voice authenticated, DNA authenticated. Anything less than that and the Innocence Project has found someone in that situation simply boned by the system. I'd hate for that poor bastard to be you or I.

Regarding justice in general, our system needs an overhaul. We need to decide what our goal is: Are we trying to punish people (makes us feel better inside but punishments don't deter crime, so there's that) or are we trying to rehabilitate people (you won't get the warm and fuzzies, but society may function better)?

This wonky crossing of the two we're currently doing is completely failing at both.


I named my pet kraken... "tinnitus". He rises every time I'm in a room with no noise.

23hrs a day with that for company..... :eek:
 

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