Short Barreled Shotgun that isn't an NFA item

[PlayboyPenguin]

Has anyone else seen these? It is a shotgun with a pistol grip and short barrel but it is not an NFA item according to the ATF. It looks like it would be a beast to shoot.

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[OutlawHoss]

It says shortest legal length, so that makes it a 18" barrel. And as long as the overall length is 26" minimum, it's good to go. It looks like someone designed it to meet those minimums. I know the pistol grip is sexy, but I like to be able to shoulder my shotgun and work through the sights, if I was clearing my house or training.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

It says shortest legal length, so that makes it a 18" barrel. And as long as the overall length is 26" minimum, it's good to go. It looks like someone designed it to meet those minimums. I know the pistol grip is sexy, but I like to be able to shoulder my shotgun and work through the sights, if I was clearing my house or training.

No, it is a 14" barrel. Just long enough to clear the feed tube.

 

[OutlawHoss]

No, it is a 14" barrel. Just long enough to clear the feed tube.

Maybe it's manufactured as a pistol?

Edit: I saw on the website it says "Non-NFA: Pistol grip, other" which is a new one for me. Would make a great truck gun or nightstand weapon (if you don't have kids!)

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Maybe it's manufactured as a pistol?

From what I am reading from the ATF, it would only legally be an SBS if it was a shotgun modified down. If it was never a regular shotgun it is outside the law.

 

[Joe13]

I'd rather have one of these personally:

Edit: Plus I personally find pistol grip shotguns without a stock to be dang near useless other then the cool factor- just my two penny's.

 

[OutlawHoss]

From what I am reading from the ATF, it would only legally be an SBS if it was a shotgun modified down. If it was never a regular shotgun it is outside the law.

That must be a change (from what I remember). Used to be you had to have SBS stamp for the Serbu Super-Shorty, now they say it's just a $5 stamp because is an AOW. Nice!

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I'd rather have one of these personally:

Edit: Plus I personally find pistol grip shotguns without a stock to be dang near useless other then the cool factor- just my two penny's.

Anyone claims you put that brace to your should you become a felon.

 

[Joe13]

Anyone claims you put that brace to your should you become a felon.

Gotta get some video to prove it first, and that itn't gonna happen

 

[etrain16]

Gotta get some video to prove it first, and that itn't gonna happen

Of course the same would go for any gun, AR, AK, etc. that uses a Sig Brace or similar device. I think most folks know now not to go around YouTube posting videos of themselves shouldering that brace (a lot of those videos out there before the ATF issued their letter). I don't own anything with a Sig brace - if I did, I would never shoulder it - unless maybe the SHTF - at which point, it's probably moot because you're trying to defend your own life, and it's doubtful anyone is taking video at that point

Probably time to start training for a 'triple tap' - two to the body, one to the iPhone

 

[Joe13]

Yea, you'd be a moron to shoulder that thing around other people.

It also takes magazines thou and even if all you did was use the brace as designed it would keep the dang thing from busting out your front teeth when you tried to aim the shot and pull the trigger.

 

[billdeserthills]

Is the last 1" of the barrel rifled?

 

[Wolf256]

It's awkward to use as a pistol brace. As a female I still had trouble getting my hand through and getting a decent grip.

And the staff behind the gun counter will freak if you put it anywhere near your shoulder.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Gotta get some video to prove it first, and that itn't gonna happen

Don't bet on it. Most convictions by the ATF do NOT include any hard evidence at all. If they decide to prosecute you will be found guilty if the potential existed and was a reasonably likely act.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Of course the same would go for any gun, AR, AK, etc. that uses a Sig Brace or similar device. I think most folks know now not to go around YouTube posting videos of themselves shouldering that brace (a lot of those videos out there before the ATF issued their letter). I don't own anything with a Sig brace - if I did, I would never shoulder it - unless maybe the SHTF - at which point, it's probably moot because you're trying to defend your own life, and it's doubtful anyone is taking video at that point

Probably time to start training for a 'triple tap' - two to the body, one to the iPhone

I would never use a SIG brace as a stock even if SHTF. If the law no longer mattered I would just add one of the stocks I have lying around (which are of course spares for my regular AR's) to one of my AR pistols. That is why it is great to have spare parts around.

 

[etrain16]

Don't bet on it. Most convictions by the ATF do NOT include any hard evidence at all. If they decide to prosecute you will be found guilty if the potential existed and was a reasonably likely act.

And the best part is, the government gets to define whether you did or didn't, and if their existing definition doesn't work, they can change it to better fit their needs. Kind of like the whole idea of 'constructive intent' if you have the parts to assemble an SBR, but no stamp yet.

 

[Joe13]

Don't bet on it. Most convictions by the ATF do NOT include any hard evidence at all. If they decide to prosecute you will be found guilty if the potential existed and was a reasonably likely act.

I respect your opinion, but any decent lawyer would get it tossed out before it ever got to a judge. Besides, unless you are labeled a terrorist then you still have the law on your side and they have the burden of proof and you have reasonable doubt on your side. Even in Federal cases.

Plus I'm white, middle aged and have no infractions except for a couple speeding tickets in my life. There is very little to no reason for them to follow up on something like that.

What your describing is the Catholic Inquisition (or any other one in our history).

That's like me saying my neighbor in an urban neighborhood started shooting his guns into the air. Unless there is someone else around that can collaborate my story, then there isn't squat local LEO can do when they get there...

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I respect your opinion, but any decent lawyer would get it tossed out before it ever got to a judge. Besides, unless you are labeled a terrorist then you still have the law on your side and they have the burden of proof and you have reasonable doubt on your side. Even in Federal cases.

Plus I'm white, middle aged and have no infractions except for a couple speeding tickets in my life. There is very little to no reason for them to follow up on something like that.

What your describing is the Catholic Inquisition (or any other one in our history).

That's like me saying my neighbor in an urban neighborhood started shooting his guns into the air. Unless there is someone else around that can collaborate my story, then there isn't squat local LEO can do when they get there...

No, they can't. Ask a decent lawyer. They will tell you if the potential existed and they want to press the issue you better plea deal.

 

[etrain16]

Don't bet on it. Most convictions by the ATF do NOT include any hard evidence at all. If they decide to prosecute you will be found guilty if the potential existed and was a reasonably likely act.

While you may be correct on that, it makes me wonder, why not just outlaw the braces altogether. Realistically, you could claim intent or potential just by owning the brace and mounting it on a gun in the first place.

Slippery slope, all of it. Can't fight the federal government - they've got more resources at their disposal than all of us combined. If they have a want or need to take someone down, even just to make a point, they'll find a way to make it happen.

 

[Joe13]

Edit: Deleteded inappropriate parts


Anywho, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I don't own one and have no interest in braces of any kind so I won't be the one to test the theory.