Short Barreled Shotgun that isn't an NFA item

[waltermitty]

Serbu is an AOW and requires a tax stamp. Also, this does not have a pistol grip.

just so folks are clear, it's loose talk to simply say "Serbu is an AOW" as Mark has made them as SBS as well as AOW. You really need to qualify the firearm by describing the specific model. Whether it is an SBS or AOW depends on what receiver the manufacturer placed their hands on prior to (re)manufacturing.

 

[Velzey]

It's a modified ( lengthened ) pistol grip installed during the mfg'ing process..
So when you want a regular pistol grip on it you best make sure it's still within the legal OAL.

 

[Member 34319]

These shotguns are not legally made as shotguns. They never had a stock placed on them, therefore they legally never became a shotgun. Same reason when you go to any sporting goods store that sells a "pistol grip only" remmy or mossy they are sold as a firearm and you have to be 21 years old to purchase it just like a stripped AR15 receiver.

With that said, instead of buying this, you could legally go buy a pistol grip only shotgun from Walmart. Which as long as you never make any documented evidence of ever having placed a stock onto it, you can legally install a broom handle or pistol grip adding length to the rear of the firearm, and then cut of that same added length to the front. Stay over 26" and everything is perfectly legal.

Is it grey area as F. You betcha. But just like the ever growing populace that owns AR pistols with braces or blades, until someone actually gets thrown under the bus and made example of. I am all for these types of things. Hell I'd love to see the day there are so many illegal solvent traps being used that the guberment literally can not enforce the laws anymore without making everyone a criminal.

If the idiots that smoked pot illegally eventually got them to change the law because of non compliance, why can't we?

 

[The Heretic]

Or, you can just buy a Keltec KSG at 26.1" with an 18" barrel or a DP 12 qt 29" with two 19" barrels.

Personally, I prefer the bullpups to the short barrel long guns if the overall length is the same. I get more barrel and I can shoulder it and the balance is better.

 

[Riot]

Black Aces Tactical did the same thing...no ATF letter needed.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/05/04/black-aces-tactical-shotgun/

 

[clearconscience]

So just like a ruger mini 14 being legal in places and a ar15 not.
Or an ar15 with a pistol grip being illegal in places and an AR15 with an ugly rifle looking grip being legal.

Just more stupid people making stupid laws that just make no sense.

But we'll continue to let criminals go, because it's not their fault.

 

[wired]

Its not a grey area. Its not a loophole . Its not a shotgun. Shotguns have buttstocks and are shoulder fired by definition under federal law. That weapon does not and has never has a buttstock. As long as it meets the minimum 26" length requirements it is a "firearm" under federal law. There is no minimum barrel length requirement for that firearm. It just needs to be over 26 inches OAL. This is just the ATF following their own regulations. If you want something illegal you need to spell out exactly the conditions that make it illegal. If those exact conditions are not met its not illegal. Dont get all excited about it.

 

[Member 34319]

Its not a grey area. Its not a loophole . Its not a shotgun. Shotguns have buttstocks and are shoulder fired by definition under federal law. That weapon does not and has never has a buttstock. As long as it meets the minimum 26" length requirements it is a "firearm" under federal law. There is no minimum barrel length requirement for that firearm. It just needs to be over 26 inches OAL. This is just the ATF following their own regulations. If you want something illegal you need to spell out exactly the conditions that make it illegal. If those exact conditions are not met its not illegal. Dont get all excited about it.

Fair enough. I wouldn't call it a loophole either. More like some people just trying to make something per the idiots (governments) stupidity (law).

 

[OutlawHoss]

Irregardless of it's actual nuts and bolts technical classification, the thing about these lesser-known and nuanced classifications (from lay-man's perspective) is someone, like a LEO, stopping you. They may know the minimum barrel length on an actual designated shotgun is 18", but a firearm that looks like, and shoots shotgun shells, but has a 14" barrel and is suspiciously short, could make for an uncomfortable contact. Best case scenario at that point, they run the serial and it somehow gets communicated to the officer that it is a legal weapon per ATF, while in the field and it's not confiscated, and you all part ways the wiser. Worst case scenario, well, how quickly can you comply? I'm not saying LEO's are ignorant or anything else derogatory, but the increase in complexity of a contact in the field where an officer is rightfully in a mode of heightened situational awareness, plus an unknown legality of a weapon could make things uncomfortable.

Just a devil's advocate thought anyway. I agree there is a great benefit in having diverse weapons, as they necessarily exercise and test our rights, which we need to at every opportunity.

 

[Hdshot]

TC makes a 410 pistol barrel. For home defense in the city, it would be perfect. No worries about shooting beyond your house. At close range like in the house, it will kill.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Or, you can just buy a Keltec KSG at 26.1" with an 18" barrel or a DP 12 qt 29" with two 19" barrels.

Personally, I prefer the bullpups to the short barrel long guns if the overall length is the same. I get more barrel and I can shoulder it and the balance is better.

Unless you want something that works without parts falling off.

 

[coupeowner]

A similar thread from a year ago.

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/14″-mossberg-non-nfa-scattergun.194294/

Unfortunately Mossberg no longer sells the parts to the public. These guys used to sell them w/ the Mossberg kit installed, but now have been forced to do their own gunsmithing to end up w/ something similar:

https://www.802traders.com/product-p/802shorty3.htm

 

[revjen45]

1) When I was in the gunsmithing program @ Lassen Community College (the bookstore had an FFL) a lot of people bought new Sako rifle actions to build silhouette pistols. Everybody who did saved the original paperwork to prove that they bought an action with no bbl. and did not chop down a rifle. No difference in the gun.
2) IMHO a PGO shotgun is as useless as a nipple on a beer bottle, the exception being the 20 ga. Ithaca Auto & Burgler gun which just plain foxxy. If I'm going to be firing 12 ga 00 Magnums I want a real stock. My hands are already FUBAR with arthritis and I don't need to make it any worse.

 

[PDX1953]

A great example of how a company applied the law to build a product that most would think is illegal is Franklin Armory. They build & sell what most gun enthusiasts would think is a SBR because it has an 10.5" barrel & a vertical front grip. They kept the length slightly over 26" so the <broken link removed> it wasn't a handgun or pistol nor was it subject to NFA/AOW classification.

Many years ago I owned a Mossberg 500 & installed a pistol grip on the rear and a pistol grip on the slide. The barrel was 18.5" long and after firing about 10 rounds it was so uncomfortable that I never fired it again. I don't even remember where it went and although a Serbu is sexy I'd still hate to fire one.

I'm anxiously waiting for my Form 1 stamp. I'm building a SBR from a 10.5" AR pistol and it'll use a Maxim CQB stock. I also have a 7.5" pistol so if I use that upper & a vertical grip I'll have a very short & usable PDW.