Shell Shot Count For Home Defense

[Joe13]

hope you never have to use it.

Oh, that's a given.

I got enough on my plate just day to day without having to deal with a break in and the fall out.

 

[Flopsweat]

I'm luckier then most in the burbs, the backstop I have is a floor to ceiling wall of books packed tight so my neighbor has a little extra protection (and a brick wall facing me).

"Step away from the signed Hemmingway!"

 

[Joe13]

"Step away from the signed Hemmingway!"

Yea, maybe not so lucky for me - 23'x8' of books... my wife would be beyond pissed. I also have a lot of first editions that I'd hate to see turned into confetti.

 

[The Heretic]

Yes because the founding fathers never meant for us to have automatic weapons. They had the kind of guns where you could shoot, and then, like, 20 minutes later, you had to put the stuff in and you could shoot again.

Umm no?

Maybe you have not read the Second Amendment?

Maybe you have not read the debates of it in the first Congress?

The Second Amendment:

" A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Note that the word is "Arms", that it is capitalized and that it is not "firearms" or "side arms" or "personal arms" - it is "Arms", which encompasses a wider definition than just guns. It means knives, guns (of any type or size), cannon, grenades (yes, they had them then) and basically anything that can be used to fight a war with. And it is war that the Founding Fathers meant to support - a war against their own government:

Before a standing army can rule the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. - Noah Webster

The Founding Fathers did not want a 'standing army' so they provided for a 'militia'. They did not want a standing army because they had been subject to the abuse of the British Army which was used to oppress the people (and also take away their arms).

The first and primary purpose of the Second Amendment is to give the people a balance of power against that of the government should it turn to tyranny and/or should the people need to rebel against unjust laws. To that end, the people must be able to bear the same "Arms" the government has - at this point in time, not just semi-automatic, but fully automatic and any other "Arms" the military has.

 

[bbbass]

Well done, sir!!

 

[bbbass]

and any other "Arms" the military has.

I want a "Dragon", since I have no room to park a Sherman.

Yah, yah, I know it's the Javelin now and Abrams tank. But wouldn't it be the perfect solution to an MRAP ala "Die Hard" style? LOL

 

[The Heretic]

I want a "Dragon", since I have no room to park a Sherman.

I want a VTOL A10 Warthog.

Come on military, spec it out and build it!

 

[bbbass]

#metoo

Maybe we could get Richard Branson or that other space dude to build us one??

 

[Flopsweat]

I want a VTOL A10 Warthog.

Come on military, spec it out and build it!

Chocolate and peanut butter? Madness.

 

[Flopsweat]

#metoo

Maybe we could get Richard Branson or that other space dude to build us one??

What's this pound me too thing?

 

[The Heretic]

Chocolate and peanut butter? Madness.

I would settle for the 30mm mounted on my flatbed truck.

 

[bbbass]

OMG!!! The cannon for the F35 won't be ready for years! And the F35 will only hold 200 25mm rds - about 4 seconds worth. By comparison the A10 holds 1200rds of 30mm. What are they thinking?????

 

[bbbass]

I would settle for the 30mm mounted on my flatbed truck.

Oooo, a Technical. Nice!!

 

[bbbass]

What's this pound me too thing?

I stole it. Using it in a disrespectful manner because I have a hardon for jargon and trendy terms. Funky way of saying "ditto" but the timing seems right. And I have been violated ya know.

 

[The Heretic]

OMG!!! The cannon for the F35 won't be ready for years! And the F35 will only hold 200 25mm rds - about 4 seconds worth. By comparison the A10 holds 1200rds of 30mm. What are they thinking?????

Defense contractor gets billions.

Military officers get kickbacks and jobs after retiring.

Congress critters get kickbacks, votes (especially if the contractor is in their district) and a job after retiring.

Meanwhile, grunts on the ground get lowest bidder equipment, air support that can't loiter and can't find a job or proper healthcare after the military.

This is how the system works.

 

[teflon6string]

Chatted at length about this once over beers with a doctor/friend (who coincidentally ended up doing a major repair on me about 6 months later).

Whether birdshot or buck, he refers to both kinds of #4 at 10-20 feet (HD range) as a "surgeon's nightmare."

Beyond that, possibly, it might come down to what a jury decides the shooter's intent was - beyond defending his family and home from an invader.

 

[The Heretic]

Bird shot will go thru many apartment walls, and probably many house walls, if shot into it at close distances.

There is defense ammo meant to reduce over penetration and if I still live in an apartment, I would probably not be using a 12 ga. for defense unless I loaded it with ammo meant to not penetrate walls.

 

[bbbass]

Reduced recoil and designed to break apart:

 

[RMc]

Yes it was.

Interesting.
How about some details. What specific ammunition was involved both 30-30 and 12 gauge? Diameter of tree, softwood or hardwood? Distance? Shot in the same spot? Etc.

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[jsparks747]

General rule of thumb for me: don't use a shot that is intended for birds and small game.