sheep dogs and mall shooters....My opinion.

[rsmccsman]

<broken link removed>

Apparently someone did have their gun drawn on the shooter but didn't have a clear shot because of the people behind the shooter. The shooter ran off didn't shoot anyone else besides himself after that.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

that's why it only happens in the movies.

Wrong. Several times spree shooters have been stopped or had their plans altered by civvy gun packers. I think in this case if I was that close and saw his actions I would be so teed off I would have to act

 

[PaulZ]

Horse Manure; you and every other blowhard. Now name one instance and I will quit harassing you.

Wrong. Several times spree shooters have been stopped or had their plans altered by civvy gun packers. I think in this case if I was that close and saw his actions I would be so teed off I would have to act

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Horse Manure; you and every other blowhard. Now name one instance and I will quit harassing you.

You're like a knat.. I just laugh at your posts because you are so ignorant and hissy fit like

There are more such as titsonritz mentioned.. a few times men have given their lives and died on the scene but it interrupted a further spree in various ways

 

[Russianfist]

A lot of thin skinned people immediately claim they're being trolled the moment their bull arguments get torpedoed. You just outed yourself as one of them.

Clear enough for ya, Mr. Speaks-for-all-LEO?

Whats clear to me is you still haven't made any valid counter point to my argument and yet you keep coming in with these silly remarks thus making you a troll.

Come with an effective rebuttal and I will respect what you have to say.

How about a raise of hands: Who has been shot at here? I have and my actions to find cover insted of pulling iron saved my life. When you guys feel the wind from a bullet off the tip of your nose then maybe you will take this more seriously!

 

[lst1166]

<broken link removed>

The interview with Nick Meli you wont see on local TV

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Whats clear to me is you still haven't made any valid counter point to my argument and yet you keep coming in with these silly remarks thus making you a troll.

Come with an effective rebuttal and I will respect what you have to say.

How about a raise of hands: Who has been shot at here? I have and my actions to find cover insted of pulling iron saved my life. When you guys feel the wind from a bullet off the tip of your nose then maybe you will take this more seriously!

I have not been shot at but had to draw firearms 6 X in dire circumstances. Dave makes more sense than you do

 

[jbett98]

Whats clear to me is you still haven't made any valid counter point to my argument and yet you keep coming in with these silly remarks thus making you a troll.

Come with an effective rebuttal and I will respect what you have to say.

How about a raise of hands: Who has been shot at here? I have and my actions to find cover insted of pulling iron saved my life. When you guys feel the wind from a bullet off the tip of your nose then maybe you will take this more seriously!

I had a drunken neighbor pull out a .38 spl revolver and empty it at me.
I was thirty feet away with no cover to run to, even if I wanted to.
The first shot took me completely by surprise, only because I had just walked out of my house to ask him why he was standing in my driveway yelling at the top of his lungs.
He had the gun hidden behind his back and after he whipped it around and tried to take aim at me, but being completely drunk the first shot went wild and every shot thereafter.
I was more then stunned with what was happening, and quite literally frozen in place while trying to rationalize with one part of my brain screaming at me to run and the other part was calmly denying what was happening.
Looking back at this event, I really believe that standing still saved my life, because the neighbor was so drunk that he was literally seeing double.

 

[davemata]

Come with an effective rebuttal and I will respect what you have to say.

Present something worth commenting on, other than your general poor behavior post #62 was not of any substantive quality except for the statement that you likely speak for all LEO. It's also poor manners to make false claims that you'll respect anything. you either do or you don't, and frankly put, it doesn't appear as if you will.

Finally, your implication of being an authority because you were shot at is a red herring fallacy. While it's unfortunate that someone shot at you, it doesn't make you an authority, nor does it qualify you to talk for all of an entire population. I've had my own share of having to get myself out of a life threatening situation, yet I know that doesn't qualify me, or anyone else to speak for an entire group.

In the interest of being as honest as possible, if you're in law enforcement, your opinion is biased, and therefore worthy of added scrutiny and skepticism. At the end of the day though, you've already demonstrated how poorly you take it when someone challenges your "authority." I'm sure that isn't the end of it.

 

[davemata]

I had a drunken neighbor pull out a .38 spl revolver and empty it at me.
I was thirty feet away with no cover to run to, even if I wanted to.
The first shot took me completely by surprise, only because I had just walked out of my house to ask him why he was standing in my driveway yelling at the top of his lungs.
He had the gun hidden behind his back and after he whipped it around and tried to take aim at me, but being completely drunk the first shot went wild and every shot thereafter.
I was more then stunned with what was happening, and quite literally frozen in place while trying to rationalize with one part of my brain screaming at me to run and the other part was calmly denying what was happening.
Looking back at this event, I really believe that standing still saved my life, because the neighbor was so drunk that he was literally seeing double.

That's a code brown moment, wow. So uh.... how were relations with the neighbor after that?

 

[jbett98]

That's a code brown moment, wow. So uh.... how were relations with the neighbor after that?

Here's the whole story;

I was friends with the older guy next door, and lived East of Sandy OR, off of SE McCabe road.
I had borrowed a chainsaw from him that week, because mine was in the shop being repaired. The deal was, after using it for a couple of days, I would give him a truck load of firewood for payment.
A friend owned forty acres of timber across the road from us, and I had permission to cut down any and all of the alder growing on his land.
I had already delivered a couple of loads to some customers the day before, and had already loaded his payment onto my truck, but got stuck in a muddy ditch. You could see the truck full of wood from both of our houses.
I called a friend to come pull me out the next day, and just left it sitting across the road.
What I didn't know was that he had just gotten fired for being drunk on the job (60 year old alcoholic machinist).
Somehow he got it in his head that I was going to rip him off and not deliver the wood.

After he emptied his pistol, I ran into my house and checked on my wife and stepson to see if they were alright. She had already called the sheriff and loaded up my shotgun in case he decided to come into the house.
The sheriff showed up and basically told me there was nothing he could do, since it was a "he said/I said" disagreement.
He told me that he would park down the road and write up a report and to call 911 if he acted up again.
Just ten minutes after the sheriff left, my neighbor comes out with a 10/22 and sprays my garage, wood shed and the left headlight of my wife's car.

The sheriff is called back and gives me the same story, sorry, but nothing can be done. As he is leaving for the second time, the neighbor comes out of his house and at the top of his lungs shouts " As soon as you leave, I am going to kill the son of a *****".
The sheriff calmly walks up to him and when about two feet from him, throws him to the ground and cuffs him.
Another sheriff shows up and asks if I want to press charges.
I get a call from a lawyer the next day who is representing the guy and we work out a deal that he posts a $15.000 bond in my name, and if he makes any more threats, he will land back in jail and I get the bond.
I was renting the house while waiting for my house loan to go through and moved within two weeks.

 

[davemata]

Wow. Let me guess, you don't borrow from neighbors anymore?

He was completely unhinged, having a bad day for sure, but that's too much. It's sad that the deputy didn't want to do anything. Had him dead to rights with Assault with a deadly weapon, but the eputy still chose to do nothing? Wow.

 

[PaulZ]

You lead a rich fantasy life.

This is a tough one. Im not gonna run across the whole mall but if it happened near me, it might be a different story. Theres a million scenarios to run through. Would you let a store employee/manager lock you in a store, would you draw your weapon etc. Circumstances..... You dont know what youll do until your in that position. Generally speaking we could probably separate an active shooter from some scared chl holder. Im guessing hes the one taking cover with a pistol in hand, NOT shooting at people, but looks to be scared as sh!t. I would do anything in my power to protect myself and others. It all happens too fast to comprehend. Keep your eyes open everyone and stay safe.

 

[jbett98]

Wow. Let me guess, you don't borrow from neighbors anymore?

He was completely unhinged, having a bad day for sure, but that's too much. It's sad that the deputy didn't want to do anything. Had him dead to rights with Assault with a deadly weapon, but the eputy still chose to do nothing? Wow.

It was my word, against his. He had put the gun away and kept telling the sheriff that I was only a renter.
The sheriff mistakenly thought that I was renting from him, and didn't want to get involved in a renter/landlord dispute.

And your right, I don't borrow anything anymore.
One of these days, I will have to tell the story about playing with a loaded .380 acp pistol and shooting up a bedroom when I was thirteen.

 

[orygun]

<broken link removed>

The interview with Nick Meli you wont see on local TV

Incorrect. I did see this on one of the local (Portland) stations first.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I had a drunken neighbor pull out a .38 spl revolver and empty it at me.
I was thirty feet away with no cover to run to, even if I wanted to.
The first shot took me completely by surprise, only because I had just walked out of my house to ask him why he was standing in my driveway yelling at the top of his lungs.
He had the gun hidden behind his back and after he whipped it around and tried to take aim at me, but being completely drunk the first shot went wild and every shot thereafter.
I was more then stunned with what was happening, and quite literally frozen in place while trying to rationalize with one part of my brain screaming at me to run and the other part was calmly denying what was happening.
Looking back at this event, I really believe that standing still saved my life, because the neighbor was so drunk that he was literally seeing double.

Were me I would be short one neighbor, since I always pack

 

[Russianfist]

Present something worth commenting on, other than your general poor behavior post #62 was not of any substantive quality except for the statement that you likely speak for all LEO. It's also poor manners to make false claims that you'll respect anything. you either do or you don't, and frankly put, it doesn't appear as if you will.

Finally, your implication of being an authority because you were shot at is a red herring fallacy. While it's unfortunate that someone shot at you, it doesn't make you an authority, nor does it qualify you to talk for all of an entire population. I've had my own share of having to get myself out of a life threatening situation, yet I know that doesn't qualify me, or anyone else to speak for an entire group.

In the interest of being as honest as possible, if you're in law enforcement, your opinion is biased, and therefore worthy of added scrutiny and skepticism. At the end of the day though, you've already demonstrated how poorly you take it when someone challenges your "authority." I'm sure that isn't the end of it.

Thank you for making it clear where you stand Dave, I can respect that.
However, I claim no position of authority on the subject nor do I believe I have made false claims and I have no idea where you see poor behavior in post #62.

I'm sorry you feel this way, it wasn't my intention to mislead you or anyone else.
I base my opinion on what I know. I am married to a 15 year LE veteran and most of my friends are LEO so I feel confident in my statements.

Bottom line of my argument is if God forbid I ever find myself in such a situation again I would want someone who knows what they are doing in CQB as opposed to someone who THINKS they know what they are doing.

I will tell you that while I am not LEO, my family and friends are and I have discussed this matter in detail with them. In general the opinion of the people I know in LE is what I have shared.

 

[davemata]

Thank you for making it clear where you stand Dave, I can respect that.
However, I claim no position of authority on the subject nor do I believe I have made false claims and I have no idea where you see poor behavior in post #62.

I'm sorry you feel this way, it wasn't my intention to mislead you or anyone else.
I base my opinion on what I know. I am married to a 15 year LE veteran and most of my friends are LEO so I feel confident in my statements.

Bottom line of my argument is if God forbid I ever find myself in such a situation again I would want someone who knows what they are doing in CQB as opposed to someone who THINKS they know what they are doing.

I will tell you that while I am not LEO, my family and friends are and I have discussed this matter in detail with them. In general the opinion of the people I know in LE is what I have shared.

That's fair.

How much recent CQB training has your other half had recently? The cops I know and have known have none, except for one SWAT member I've known who had to retire after he had a few holes put in him when he knocked on a drug dealer's door during a buy. (He really wanted to be DEA, and volunteered for every narcotics operation he could.)

I'm all for people being trained, but I don't think having a badge automatically implies training or professionalism, just denotes employment, in general. That changes for the military.

I've been lead to believe, by people who were in Afghanistan and Iraq, that CQB training is extremely perishable, and requires constant retraining to keep competence high. I don't think the police can do that, and their job.

Granted, your average mall ninja won't have that either.