Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

sheep dogs and mall shooters....My opinion.

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Russianfist, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. Russianfist

    Russianfist Sweet home, Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    74
    In light of todays actions of a lunatic at Clackamas town center I was reflecting on what I would do in that situation. I also made an observation of what others have said they would do in such a tragic event.

    Many of the sheep dogs (ccw/oc owners) say that if they were there things would have been much different. Now, some of these people I know that say this are well trained and have combat experience. To them I say go for it and do what must be done. However, I've heard alot of others who don't have that training say the same thing and that is the wrong attitude to have. Way to many things can go wrong and make a bad situation worse if you don't know what you are doing. If you find yourself in a situation like that listen to your instincts because anyone well trained will tell you that your instincts will keep you alive. Also,anyone who's been through a CCW class knows that your side arm is a last resort so going off to hunt down a shooter is just plain foolish if you have an opportunity to escape or hide. If you somehow by chance get the drop on a shooter then a couple things should come to mind. Do I have a clear shot, do they have a partner,are they wearing body armor and so on.

    A Thunder Ranch student was in the mall at the time of the shooting.What did he do? HE HID! Not because he was a coward but its what he was trained to do. His advice was get to cover,get out pf sight and flee.

    We would all be better off if their were more sheep dogs in the world and I am %100 supportive of CCW/OC but I get very frustrated when I hear "cowboy" remarks from people who arn't qualified to protect the lives of others.

    So what would have I done in that situation? Flee! If I was unable to flee I would get to cover and pray I didnt come face to face with a gunman. If I somehow got the drop on the bad guy I would take the shot ONLY if I had no other options.

    One last thing, once you pull that side arm be prepared for what happens next. Another sheep dog or LEO could mistake you for a bad guy in the chaos and it could end badly for you. Even if you stop the bad guy.

    Sorry for the rant, these are just my thoughts.
     
    Ironbar, longcolt, kukusya and 43 others like this.
  2. Boomerang

    Boomerang Portland area Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    204
    This seems like a very real possibility. Conversely, if you think you see a Bad Guy, make real real sure that you've 100% identified him as the BG. We wouldn't want a Good Guy shooting another Good Guy.
     
    fuhr52, enjr4, sheepdip and 3 others like this.
  3. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    3,584
    too many bad things can happen just for a slap on the back (atta boy) it is not my job to protect other people. It's their fault for being unarmed. (adults not children)
     
  4. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Clack Co. OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,130
    Likes Received:
    560
    Totally respect your choice.

    I'd pop him if I had a half decent chance. I've never wanted to waste my life and have always wanted to go out helping others. Gotta go out sometime, somehow.

    We all have our reasons for our choices.
     
    orygun, slimer13, Jasonsan and 13 others like this.
  5. g.i. joe

    g.i. joe Portland Active Member

    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    94
    Not just being unarmed, but unaware. Take away my gun, and I will likely still be s survivor, because I practice situational awareness.
     
  6. redmond

    redmond Redmond, WA Member

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    13
    Russianfist-

    Very well stated. I carry for defense and am not trained well enough to go after the shooter. I hope, if confronted with a similar event, that I would do as you suggest - and not just pee my pants.
     
    Kevatc and (deleted member) like this.
  7. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    12,912
    Likes Received:
    19,565
    Not disputing a single thing you said, but did you mean trained like the NYPD who hit eight innocent bystanders when taking on a man with a gun, or pumping 137 rounds into a couple in a car... you mean that kind of training? I think I can at least match that. ;)
     
    Galant, rsmccsman, Grunwald and 29 others like this.
  8. CharonPDX

    CharonPDX Portland, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    523
    Likes Received:
    214
    Yup, both sides that come out of the woodwork with these piss me off. "If only there weren't guns!" Yeah, if there weren't guns, then more women would get raped by men bigger than them.

    "If only I had been there with my .45 to take him down!" Or shoot innocent bystanders, or if two of you were there, have a shootout between yourselves without the actual assailant anywhere nearby, or get YOURSELF shot by police, or.....

    With a CHL comes the RESPONSIBILITY to use it wisely. To defend yourself or others around you from IMMEDIATE harm. Not to hunt down a criminal, not to take unnecessary risks that might hurt yourself or others. Yes, if you're in the open, and the shooter comes along, and you have a clean shot - by all means, take it. But if you're hiding with five other people behind a counter, and he comes along - for God's sake, do not engage! you just put those with you at risk more than the risk of staying quiet. Again, obviously if the assailant comes looking for you and finds you, by all means, take him out. Absolutely have your weapon out and ready, but don't make it obvious except to those you can quietly reassure that you will only use it in absolute self-defense. Don't whip it out in the middle of mass chaos when you don't even see the assailant - an officer or security guard (or even another CHLer,) will see YOU as the threat.
     
    Sgt Nambu, rkoreis, TJdamon and 7 others like this.
  9. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Clack Co. OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,130
    Likes Received:
    560
    You sure get pissed of easily. Some people have different skill sets and priorities than you.
     
  10. BDA.45

    BDA.45 oregon Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    571
    Likes Received:
    634
    This is a tough one. Im not gonna run across the whole mall but if it happened near me, it might be a different story. Theres a million scenarios to run through. Would you let a store employee/manager lock you in a store, would you draw your weapon etc. Circumstances..... You dont know what youll do until your in that position. Generally speaking we could probably separate an active shooter from some scared chl holder. Im guessing hes the one taking cover with a pistol in hand, NOT shooting at people, but looks to be scared as sh!t. I would do anything in my power to protect myself and others. It all happens too fast to comprehend. Keep your eyes open everyone and stay safe.
     
  11. DFuller

    DFuller Hood Canal Member

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    35
    Interesting video, I liked it


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  12. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    3,584
    the big word is GUESSING what if that happened to be a partner covering his back bye bye BDA45. to many variables and no absolute answers
     
  13. BDA.45

    BDA.45 oregon Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    571
    Likes Received:
    634
    So what are you saying? Do nothing? Has there been an active shooter scenario where that has happened?
     
  14. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    3,584
    all I'm saying is take control on matters that you know the answers to. what about if that was a scared chl holder and you do take out the bad guy then another chl holder shows up to take out the bad guy and there you are standing there with a gun in hand over a body. in other wards unless you (or your's) are the target yes do nothing
     
  15. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    3,584
    if you want to risk your life for people to incompetent to protect themselves then go ahead and be a hero (possibly a dead hero). I have no reason to be a hero to anyone other than to mine and myself.
     
  16. jonn5335

    jonn5335 Longview Active Member

    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    231
    I shoot my pistols multiple times per week. Depending on what I had on my person if I felt I could have taken an effective shot from that distance in a covered/sheltered position I would do it without hesitation.
     
    orygun, lv1986, robertg and 3 others like this.
  17. rsmccsman

    rsmccsman Hillsboro Go Blazers!

    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    120
    "There was gunplay, sir, and he missed it." Cadet Leslie Barbara explaining why another officer was crying, frustrated and banging his head in Police Academy.

    From watching the news I was reminded of the above quote. It looked like the usual "too much too late" overkill reaction by law enforcement. Every LEO from 4 counties rushing in and hanging around for hours after its over. They made all the shoppers come out of the mall with their hands up while pointing their AR's at them and making them leave behind their possessions, it would have been easy to be mistaken for a bad guy being a CHL holder and been shot by all the cops frustrated like the cadet and crying that "There was gun play, we missed it." I agree that if you have a clear shot take it. But don't go on a hunt to clear the mall by yourself. It took the police hours to clear it after this guy killed himself.

    Then the mall cops escorted the news media off of mall property. Wow I will feel so much safer knowing the media has been 86'd. All the law enforcement in the world showing up after the fact just proves to me that they can't protect you.

    Any way the massive response reminded me that "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put humpty together again."
     
  18. aslinged

    aslinged Southern Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    251
    Yeager makes a powerful point in the video.

    What if it's your family that I protect? Then I'm your best friend. What if its my family and you stand there and do nothing. Not my friend.
     
  19. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    3,584
    dead is dead regardless of the reason
     
  20. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    3,584
    my family doesn't go unprotected and doesn't expect help. I'm sorry you let your family be unprotected.