Serialization of Firearms. $50 Per Firearm. Not Cheap But At Least They Are Doing It.

[Flintlock Tom]

Then what is it? The copy/paste reads like an advertisement and it seems to be working as two people here have already submitted an inquiry. Look, I'm not trying to be difficult and the service I'm sure will help some people out. But we have a Supporting Vendor system in place for a reason and this is one of them. The company listed already has the potential to make $100 right off the bat here. Yes, it's a good service for those that need it but does that make it ok to post their ad for free while our valued Supporting Vendors have to pay to post services/goods like this? @Joe Link should probably get involved here.

Your tag says "Staff Member"; if it's an issue why not have an administrator delete the post?

 

[Alexx1401]

Your tag says "Staff Member"; if it's an issue why not have an administrator delete the post?

He has said a couple times he is waiting for the guy who actually owns this site to decide if he wants to do anything about this rather that delete the thread himself.

 

[Yarome]

I'm not great with legaleze, But what keeps you from marking your reciever with the manufactures name and a unique individual serial number?
The Manufactures name would be your own, and create your own series of letters and numbers for the serial#.
For example
John Q Smith
PEWPEW001
Why would I need to pay someone to do this for me if I have the skills to make my own gun?
DR

To pass casual muster it would have to follow the alphabets serialization formatting rules. Part of which is a portion of an FFL's licensee number that allows LE to trace the firearm back to the FFL... who could... prove that they did in fact apply a serial number to that frame/receiver on such and such a date. All they could tell LE though would be the name on the gunsmithing order. Good luck tracking down Harry Azcrak's address though.

 

[Flintlock Tom]

He has said a couple times he is waiting for the guy who actually owns this site to decide if he wants to do anything about this rather that delete the thread himself.

Noted. I commented before I read all 4 pages of the thread...

 

[crstrode]

While you guys are at this insanity, be sure to check all of your ground pepper and carefully remove all of the fly poop.

 

[PiratePast40]

I'm not great with legaleze, But what keeps you from marking your reciever with the manufactures name and a unique individual serial number?
The Manufactures name would be your own, and create your own series of letters and numbers for the serial#.
For example
John Q Smith
PEWPEW001
Why would I need to pay someone to do this for me if I have the skills to make my own gun?
DR

First off, HB2005 makes it so that you need to be a licensee to manufacture, sell, transfer, etc. You need to wade through and interpret the regulations and codes referenced in the bill to determine what constitutes a licensed dealer and the federal requirements for serial numbers. As far as I can tell, HB2500 has no provisions for an individual marking their own firearms. Under the federal system, there is no requirement for marking PMFs until you go to sell or transfer them. Here's an excerpt from 27 CFR, 487.92, Identification.... This pertains to licensees marking PMFs:

The serial number must begin with the licensee's abbreviated Federal firearms license number, which is the first three and last five digits, as a prefix to a unique identification number, followed by a hyphen, e.g., "12345678-[unique identification number]".

 

[PiratePast40]

IMO, in this case, gaming the system is an exercise in futility. Let's have the whole thing thrown out since the federal law has been determined to be unconstitutional. Hey, I've got an idea. Write and call Vikki Breese Iverson and ask her what's going on with the lawsuit. In fact, there were 25 Representatives that donated $1000 each to the lawsuit. Ask them what's going on with the lawsuit. I'll bet you won't find a single one that has an answer unless it's the one or two that I've spoken to personally about the lawsuit. Their offices are open and their phones are staffed. Stop in and see them or give them a call. Let us know if you get an answer of any sort. Tap dancing is an answer and it'll be amusing to hear what some of them come up with.

 

[dangerranger60]

First off, HB2005 makes it so that you need to be a licensee to manufacture, sell, transfer, etc. You need to wade through and interpret the regulations and codes referenced in the bill to determine what constitutes a licensed dealer and the federal requirements for serial numbers. As far as I can tell, HB2500 has no provisions for an individual marking their own firearms. Under the federal system, there is no requirement for marking PMFs until you go to sell or transfer them. Here's an excerpt from 27 CFR, 487.92, Identification.... This pertains to licensees marking PMFs:

The serial number must begin with the licensee's abbreviated Federal firearms license number, which is the first three and last five digits, as a prefix to a unique identification number, followed by a hyphen, e.g., "12345678-[unique identification number]".

Thanks, this is a state requirement. Over the years I have made a few home built firearms. and before giving them to my kids and grandkids I gave them my own serial numbers. A couple of them are now living in Ore.
I'm going to have to look farther into this to see if those guns are grandfathered in, or will need a new serial#. DR

 

[Koda]

I'm going to have to look farther into this to see if those guns are grandfathered in, or will need a new serial#. DR

I would like to know what you find out, as far as I can tell they are not grandfathered in.

 

[Yarome]

I'm going to have to look farther into this to see if those guns are grandfathered in, or will need a new serial#. DR

I would like to know what you find out, as far as I can tell they are not grandfathered in.

This.

No grandfather clause. A new FFL applied serial # would have to be applied for compliance.

Contact all the GOP reps with every means at your disposal and tell them to get off their hinny and do as they promised to fight HB2005 in court.

"You had all but stopped it, gave up in the last hour and knowingly allowed it. Now, go clean up your mess or, will I not only not vote for you again, but will actively work to see someone else fill your seat!'

 

[dangerranger60]

This.

No grandfather clause. A new FFL applied serial # would have to be applied for compliance.

Contact all the GOP reps with every means at your disposal and tell them to get off their hinny and do as they promised to fight HB2005 in court.

"You had all but stopped it, gave up in the last hour and knowingly allowed it. Now, go clean up your mess or, will I not only not vote for you again, but will actively work to see someone else fill your seat!'

Will this apply to all those guns made before the GCA that never had a serial number? only those built from an 80% receiver? or any gun without a serial# ? DR

 

[Yarome]

Will this apply to all those guns made before the GCA that never had a serial number? only those built from an 80% receiver? or any gun without a serial# ? DR

Any other firearm from a "kit", partially completed, restored or not is required.

 

[arakboss]

Will this apply to all those guns made before the GCA that never had a serial number? only those built from an 80% receiver? or any gun without a serial# ? DR

Here is the list of exempted unserialized firearms, if yours does not fit into one of these exemptions than it is no bueno.


(2) This section does not apply to:
(a) Antique firearms;
(b) Firearms manufactured prior to October 22, 1968;
(c) Firearms rendered permanently inoperable;
(d) The sale, offer to sell, or transfer of a firearm to, or possession of a firearm by, a
person licensed as a firearm manufacturer, importer or dealer under 18 U.S.C. 923; or
(e) A gunsmith taking possession of a firearm for the purpose of imprinting the firearm
with a serial number in accordance with federal law.

 

[jester4488]

OK, so I live in Eugene and actually took my completed unserialized frames/receivers (billet AR lowers and a few P80 frames in full size, compact and subcompact) to Dan at ADR. They are totally legit and I found Dan to be very helpful and knowledgable about the ins and outs of what is required. I took a total of 10 frames/receivers to him and received them back engraved the next morning. When I picked them up, he offered me a tour of their facility and it was pretty cool. They have a fairly small shop but own some big time machining equipment and put out a quality product. I was not aware of the coupon that was running but Dan gave it to me anyway which I greatly appreciated.

The only information I had to provide him was a name to assign to the engraved number. The number consists of a unique number that identifies him as the FFL that assigned the number followed by a hyphen and a unique number for your firearm. My lowers were from a variety of manufacturers but all had integral trigger guards and the number was engraved on the bottom of the trigger guard since my lowers would not fit into his jig. The engraving is done by a laser so there is some brown "staining" on the metal around the number on the unanodized/cerakoted metal like on the P80s but it doesn't bother me. I have not tried to remove it but it may come off with a little scrubbing.

I struggled for quite awhile with this decision but finally decided to proceed because I want to be able to take my firearms to the range without the risk of fines or jail time. Feel free to DM me if you have specific questions that I can answer or you can leave a message through their website and Dan seems to respond quickly.

 

[arakboss]

OK, so I live in Eugene and actually took my completed unserialized frames/receivers (billet AR lowers and a few P80 frames in full size, compact and subcompact) to Dan at ADR. They are totally legit and I found Dan to be very helpful and knowledgable about the ins and outs of what is required. I took a total of 10 frames/receivers to him and received them back engraved the next morning. When I picked them up, he offered me a tour of their facility and it was pretty cool. They have a fairly small shop but own some big time machining equipment and put out a quality product. I was not aware of the coupon that was running but Dan gave it to me anyway which I greatly appreciated.

The only information I had to provide him was a name to assign to the engraved number. The number consists of a unique number that identifies him as the FFL that assigned the number followed by a hyphen and a unique number for your firearm. My lowers were from a variety of manufacturers but all had integral trigger guards and the number was engraved on the bottom of the trigger guard since my lowers would not fit into his jig. The engraving is done by a laser so there is some brown "staining" on the metal around the number on the unanodized/cerakoted metal like on the P80s but it doesn't bother me. I have not tried to remove it but it may come off with a little scrubbing.

I struggled for quite awhile with this decision but finally decided to proceed because I want to be able to take my firearms to the range without the risk of fines or jail time. Feel free to DM me if you have specific questions that I can answer or you can leave a message through their website and Dan seems to respond quickly.

Thank you for sharing this info. Can you share a pic of one of the P80 serial numbers with the middle part of the number blacked out?

 

[jester4488]

Thank you for sharing this info. Can you share a pic of one of the P80 serial numbers with the middle part of the number blacked out?

Thank you for sharing this info. Can you share a pic of one of the P80 serial numbers with the middle part of the number blacked out?

 

[arakboss]

View attachment 1812381 View attachment 1812382

That is awesome, thanks for sharing the pics.

 

[saxon]

i also talked to Dan at ADR and had him do some work.
100% stand up guy very friendly and knowledgeable about current "law"

i would recommend him and his company ,.

 

[arakboss]

This topic made me think about my AR upper only firearm project.

Homemade Single Shot Slam Fire Breech Loading Firearm "Upper Only Project"

One of Bronsons Death Wish movies had the pipe shotgun too. Not much new under the sun nowdays.

www.northwestfirearms.com

This type of project would now be prohibited by HB2005, as it would be making an unserialized firearm. If I was to have either the upper receiver or the bolt carrier serialized by a gunsmith then it should be legal again to make an operational firearm along these lines.

 

[Knebel]

I punch "the serial" with number punches. Usually be something along the likes of "effatf0001" or so haha