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Many who claim to be part of the Sovereign movement really aren't true believers, but just people who think they've found a tax dodge. Thru fake trusts and bogus financial instruments they claim that the Fed Gov does not have the right to tax them. The will send reams of complaints, motions to dismiss, and requests for documentation hoping that the Fed Gov will just get tired of pursuing them. WRONG!!!

I won't go into details here, but I have some very personal experience with some of these types. Google Tony Dutson Fugitive to see an Oregon connection to a couple of these types or check the following link.

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This is the reason WA needs to close the border with Idaho. :p

But seriously, I think the sovereign thing is like a religious cult. The followers lap it up and take a lot of the risk, but like Cougfan said it often turns out the 'leaders' don't believe their own BS and were just in it for the money all along. Either that or they are just crazy rednecks with bad teeth and a death wish like Jerry Kane and Terry Nichols.

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Fringe goofiness. We see them from time to time in Oregon. "This court has no jurisdiction, because the wrong flag is flying in the courtroom." "He has now judicial power, because the oath he took was 2 words different from that prescribed in the constitution." "X is not a valid candidate because he did not pay his filing fee in gold or silver."

Yeah, right. Whatever. Goofiness among the 2A crowd discredits our cause. I'm sure no one here is that silly, right?

There was nothing in the article about 2nd amendment so why do you compare our members to these guys? Why do always try to make gun owners look bad? What's your problem with gun owners? Seems you think you are the only one who should be allowed to own a gun and I have to say I have not found you to be anything near a normal or stable personality.
 
This is the reason WA needs to close the border with Idaho. :p

But seriously, I think the sovereign thing is like a religious cult. The followers lap it up and take a lot of the risk, but like Cougfan said it often turns out the 'leaders' don't believe their own BS and were just in it for the money all along. Either that or they are just crazy rednecks with bad teeth and a death wish like Jerry Kane and Terry Nichols.

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Doing it for the money makes their goals less noble how? Considering how the government's primary goal is take money from productive citizens, financial gain would be a big reason to abstain from the state.

As for the shootings, big deal. The government murders more US citizens in a week than the entire sovereign citizen movement did in its entire existence.
 
What's next? Do you want these thugs to be showing up at your HOUSE and want to come in and check out your genitals, and those of the rest of your family? After the airports, train and bus stations, schools, shopping malls and supermarkets, your home will be the next place to be invaded. Maybe some body cavity searches while you and yours bend over your kitchen table for the big bad government goons with purple gloves? "We're just going to look around here folks, see what's in your medicine cabinet... what kinds of guns you have? What you're feeding to you kids... Warrant? We don't need no stinkin' warrant! We're the guv'ment! You're da slaves!" And the dumbed-down American Sheeple will probably go right along with it. After all, the loving government needs to be sure you and your family are safe in your home and Al CIAduh isn't hiding under your bed. And when the thugs finally leave with one or more of your family members in handcuffs, or possibly dead, the dumbed-down and complacent Americans will turn their TV back on and watch COPS and pay their loving government some more worship.
 
i would never claim myself to be a part of the "sovereign citizens" because obviously the true meaning of that is way in the rearview, and telling someone that is just gonna make you a target. BUT, it'll be a cold cold day in "hades" before any of these tsa terrorist lay a hand on me. Because thats all they are, terrorist, ruining peoples self confidence, making people feel small and scared so that they truely believe its ok for them to be molested and robbed by this terrorist army running around our country working directly for their government, not my government.
 
Underneath the article I noticed another one about the "Sexpressos" (aka baristas) booming in Kitsap...

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This isn't a thread Hi-Jack, btw.


So, here's a business that causes controversy. Some people love them, some hate them. What is the cure? Legislation. That's right, since I think something is wrong for you to do (i.e. buy coffee from a barista) my plan is to make it illegal for them to do it.

Anyone else think that this is ridiculous? I mean, I think that anyone that pulls up in one with their van with their kids in the back is a RETARD. But do I think they should be illegal? Nope. Have I ever been to one? Nope. But if I feel strongly about something like that, I just don't go! Everyone's answer for everything is to have the government step in and get involved. Heck, most of the people probably pushing for this legislation are probably other coffee stands loosing profits from this new competition! You know what that is called? CAPITALISM!

Bah!

So here I am, a government employee and a military vet....I'm critical of the government (as EVERYONE should be). I've noticed that there is a bit of a movement to squash people like me, people that don't like to just accept the answers we are given and try to hold our higher ups accountable for their actions.

Richland PD just shot a guy, recently...and I couldn't believe what I read in the paper in the editorial section in the local news on the subject.

Richland police shooting requires fuller accounting - Opinions | Tri-City Herald : Mid-Columbia news

The editor caught a lot of grief over this...mainly from people saying that the police don't need to tell us everything about the investigation and we should just take their word that everything is fine and the shooting was just. Obviously, I would be a hypocrite to state that these people don't have a right to their opinion or to exercise their 1st Amendment rights. But why can't we hold our officials accountable? What is wrong with raising our hand and asking the tough questions? Because it isn't popular? Because it makes waves? Well TOUGH IT OUT BUTTERCUP, you're in the United States of America! We enjoy these rights, and not exercising them means to lose them forever. People have died to give you these rights and I'm criticized for using them? I'm labeled a "terrorist" for wanting accountability and fairness for everyone?

BAH!

[/rant]
 
This all brings to mind John Brown the Pre-Civil War Abolitionist. The man was a fanatic and murdered many PPL trying to set slaves free. He and his followers were killed by the Govt as a result. A few years later that same govt waged war against millions to set slaves free.
Back in the 80's I met one of these Soveregins, he was not the sharpest knife in the box. He made a big point of NOT having a license plate, or a driver's license and eventually went to jail. The guy chose to go to jail for the stupidist of reasons but when I think about it NOW I see that we will be forced into jail, or worse,for much the same reason. Stalinism has come to America and WE are on the endangerd specie list. And I'm not kidding either.
 

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