Washington SB5174 - CPL holders must take an approved training course

[Boss]

Possible scenario: super nit picky instructor audits. Then yank the instructors credentials and void all the CPL's of their students.

Same potential for the 'training' being offered for [cue evil voice] 'semi-automatic assault rifles!!'

That slope is looking pretty slick...

Boss

 

[bikemutt]

I wonder if the training I took for OR and AZ will be an exemption? Probably not, sorry, just another wild fantasy

 

[Boss]

I wonder if the training I took for OR and AZ will be an exemption? Probably not, sorry, just another wild fantasy

Libiot snowflake approved? No? Fail.

This process isn't about being easy, logical, or convenient...its about obstructing under the guise of safety.

These places already offering training? Hope they have some form of official approval. Of course, even if they do, they appear to be able to yank it retroactively...good times

Boss

 

[Caveman Jim]

Its not about what they THINK they can get away with... they know they can do whatever they want... what are you gonna do? Vote them out?
They're pretty much set and know it.

No interest in hearing from us. Look at the first round of bills they put up... we got TWO days notice of committee hearings. Now, tell me that is not kicking rural WA in the balls. How many people, who dont live within 30 min of the sound can plan to be in Oly all day on only two days notice? Its a dog and pony show anyway, their minds are made up and the hearings are just a formality.

nevertheless, Ill be up there Tuesday for the House hearing on HB1068

I'll be there also. PM on the way.

 

[Caveman Jim]

If any of you were going to testify ask the committee members directly, why am I and all Washington State CPL holders being persecuted for the acts of the criminals & mentally ill. Also tell them that we are not the problem there are already laws against murder with a gun now you're going to write laws that say what gun cannot be used to commit murder. Kind of pointless and stupid if you ask me.

 

[Cigarlvr313]

I think those folks need to be pi-- tested before they vote on anything.

 

[bikemutt]

Seems to me there was only one good example of a CPL holder who should have had training. I'm recalling the newly minted holder who decided to fiddle around with his gun at a Renton Landing movie theater, ended up negligently shooting an innocent movie goer in the back, she lived but still, wasn't a good movie day for her.

Maybe there are others, I've just not heard of them.

 

[Boss]

Ive read there's about 608,000 CPL holders in WA...that's a significant percentage of the adult population. And what percent are involved in overt, violent crime? It probably ain't many.

Of course they know law abiding gun owners are not the problem...in recently coined terms, this is a manufactured 'emergency.'.

The goal is the advance the agenda of further restrictions.

Boss

 

[Boss]

Seems to me there was only one good example of a CPL holder who should have had training. I'm recalling the newly minted holder who decided to fiddle around with his gun at a Renton Landing movie theater, ended up negligently shooting an innocent movie goer in the back, she lived but still, wasn't a good movie day for her.

Maybe there are others, I've just not heard of them.

That was 2 1/2 years ago and he was intoxicated.

So yeah, not like CPL holders are a frequent problem.

Boss

 

[Caveman Jim]

Seems to me there was only one good example of a CPL holder who should have had training. I'm recalling the newly minted holder who decided to fiddle around with his gun at a Renton Landing movie theater, ended up negligently shooting an innocent movie goer in the back, she lived but still, wasn't a good movie day for her.

Maybe there are others, I've just not heard of them.

These laws are not going to fix every incident that's what they don't understand they think it's an umbrella coverage and will fix all problems but they won't. So why persecute every gun owner for the ignorant acts of a few?

 

[bikemutt]

Open carry looking better everyday

Lets face it, CPL won't allow you to walk out with the gun anymore.

For now a non-resident ID permit has reciprocity in WA, I'm sure they'll be along to fix that "loophole".

 

[Alexx1401]

Seems to me there was only one good example of a CPL holder who should have had training. I'm recalling the newly minted holder who decided to fiddle around with his gun at a Renton Landing movie theater, ended up negligently shooting an innocent movie goer in the back, she lived but still, wasn't a good movie day for her.

Maybe there are others, I've just not heard of them.

The problem I have with examples like this is training is going to "fix this". The guy sounds like an idiot. I hear he was also drunk. So after attending a class he will suddenly not do this? Sure.
This is on par with the tags on the hair dryer telling me not to use it in the shower. People this stupid can not be helped because they took a class. The world is full of stupid people. Sadly we can't outlaw them.

 

[Mathias]

Well, if we wanna talk 'compromise,' how's about training requirements in exchange for being legal to carry everywhere... schools, sporting events, etc.

If we're trained after all, we ought to be good to go, right?

Boss

Where can we find schedules for committee hearings? I want to attend.

 

[Mathias]

The problem I have with examples like this is training is going to "fix this". The guy sounds like an idiot. I hear he was also drunk. So after attending a class he will suddenly not do this? Sure.
This is on par with the tags on the hair dryer telling me not to use it in the shower. People this stupid can not be helped because they took a class. The world is full of stupid people. Sadly we can't outlaw them.

Why dont we talk about the 800,000-2million legal, selfdefense uses of firearms in America every year. Or the fact that civilians hit their target at a much higher rate than police?

 

[bikemutt]

The problem I have with examples like this is training is going to "fix this". The guy sounds like an idiot. I hear he was also drunk. So after attending a class he will suddenly not do this? Sure.
This is on par with the tags on the hair dryer telling me not to use it in the shower. People this stupid can not be helped because they took a class. The world is full of stupid people. Sadly we can't outlaw them.

I'm sure you are right, most specific examples are readily analysed and easily dismissed.

The course I had to take for OR CHL was online and pretty much told me things I already know, and practice. The course for AZ was more involved and touched on areas concerning responsibility and consequences.

Circle back to WA, are you a felon? No. Here you go.

I'm not suggesting that stupid can be easily fixed, it can't. Some level of demonstrated proficiency is not about outlawing anyone, it's to ensure a modicum of understanding of how to enjoy a right or privilege while not trampling on someone else's right or privilege to do the same.

 

[Boss]

Why dont we talk about the 800,000-2million legal, selfdefense uses of firearms in America every year. Or the fact that civilians hit their target at a much higher rate than police?

Or the 1,000,000+ home invasions that occur a year?

Answer: Counter to the agenda to increase restrictions on the law abiding gun owner.

Anything counter to the agenda is going to be ignored, dismissed, buried.

Boss

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Seems to me there was only one good example of a CPL holder who should have had training. I'm recalling the newly minted holder who decided to fiddle around with his gun at a Renton Landing movie theater, ended up negligently shooting an innocent movie goer in the back, she lived but still, wasn't a good movie day for her.

Maybe there are others, I've just not heard of them.

I don't think that a class would have prevented this.

He had a Xanax and a 22-ounce beer to calm his nerves before seeing "13 Hours: The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi", because he was "concerned about recent mass shootings in public places" So concerned, in fact, that he kept his gun unholstered and tucked into his waistband, according to Man who says he feared mass shootings accidentally shoots stranger in movie theater, police say

 

[Alexx1401]

I'm sure you are right, most specific examples are readily analysed and easily dismissed.

The course I had to take for OR CHL was online and pretty much told me things I already know, and practice. The course for AZ was more involved and touched on areas concerning responsibility and consequences.

Circle back to WA, are you a felon? No. Here you go.

I'm not suggesting that stupid can be easily fixed, it can't. Some level of demonstrated proficiency is not about outlawing anyone, it's to ensure a modicum of understanding of how to enjoy a right or privilege while not trampling on someone else's right or privilege to do the same.

The problem with this would be then you would need to do it at point of sale. If someone is too stupid to safely handle a firearm the CPL is not where problems will crop up. We would have to have something like the FOID card. Then in order to get the card you have to pass the class. Again the punish the good to get at the bad. I would rather just see them hold the stupid accountable. I seem to be in the minority there though.

 

[bikemutt]

The problem with this would be then you would need to do it at point of sale. If someone is too stupid to safely handle a firearm the CPL is not where problems will crop up. We would have to have something like the FOID card. Then in order to get the card you have to pass the class. Again the punish the good to get at the bad. I would rather just see them hold the stupid accountable. I seem to be in the minority there though.

I agree with what you are saying, punishing the good to get at the bad is poor policy.

I'll try to leave it at this: having to take a class, online or in person, hasn't been enough to keep me from applying for permits that suit me; it's a cost of doing business thing. In the larger scheme of things it's a nuisance at worst, and a person may learn something new, and valuable, at best.

 

[EPS]

It is shall, I remember when it changed. Even before it went shall, it was a rubber stamp. At least for me and mine. Walk in and one of the things they would ask is "why do you want to be able to carry a pistol concealed". Never knew anyone who got a no. My answer was always "I hunt and always carry a pistol with me for emergency use". Don't know if any got a no by coming up with something bizarre.
In any case WA was WAYYYY ahead of most of the country on this. When I turned 21 I got my first CPL. Few places offered them with any kind of ease. Decades later others started to offer and many to get them passed added some kind of "test". It can still be shall issue and add some kind of test. Will be interesting to see what they come up with when they finally do get that added here.

I remember that years ago I went to get one in Tacoma .and the paperwork was about 3 or 4 pages . with QUESTIONS about why you wanted to carry a gun