SB 941 Loop Holes

[bnsaibum]

I'm just responding to being stereotyped for sharing a different opinion.

I make the distinction between government and laws. I don't subscribe to bloated LE agencies overseeing gun laws. Rather, I make the case that well thought out laws can prevent and eliminate the need.

This entire idea that make and model of your firearms will suddenly lead to a Kafka esque nightmare always makes me laugh. The government has the make and model of your vehicle. Oh no.. The DMV is going to take our vehicles away... Why is it important for them to have records? So if vehicles are used in a criminal way they can hold you accountable. Your tin foil hat needs a little more tin foil. For these reasons I have never had a problem with the government knowing the make and model of my vehicle and I share this opinion about my firearms. Government has a god damn DNA sample from me and a personnel history roster from my security clearance evaluation tests from military service. I could care less about them knowing the make and serial number of my firearm.

The old "FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS" guard has never resonated with me. A throw back to a past of my grandfathers World War II mindset generation and my fathers Vietnam experience. Yet as part of the next military generation I've found this thought process regressive. Times change and so do laws. Laws have to adapt to changing world that is changing faster and faster. This entire mindset that ALL laws must be stricken down has led to the watered down political process that never ends up producing qualitative legislation. I've spent 3 years of my life fighting regressive regimes with unyielding political,cultural, and religious ideals.

I'm part of a large number of veterans coming back to the ridiculous circus in the modern gun community. Plagued with overweight civilians wearing military uniforms (a disgrace to the uniform), with "tier 1 operator beards" and almost on cue with civilian gun marketing schemes the windfall of new purchases based on the latest and greatest syndrome fueled by a billion dollar industry trying to sell the tactical defense crowd the "SPECIAL OPERATIONS/NAVY SEAL" image of machoism. The irony never escapes me that statistically speaking a good majority of these consumers have a higher percentage chance of dying from heart disease or diabetes and that the biggest threat to themselves is their own BMI (seriously that wilson combat 1911 isn't going protect all those years of life you're losing to 35 percent body fat.)

I don't doubt there are some good shooters on here. Some that can put me to shame on some stationary paper targets with bright red target indicators. I don't doubt that the average guy on here might put in 150-250 rounds a week and be pretty decent after a few years. A good majority of the shooters I encounter haven't taken any real world defensive classes by some folks with real world modern training respected by law enforcement and military operator types (THUNDER RANCH COUH COUGH). I see a whole lot of fancy shiny new guns and a whole lot of grand standing about all the bells and whistles. Not a lot of bragging about training. Training isn't an instant gratification toy to make your friends jealous.

What is really at stake? Losing out to the really scary laws being pushed in the midwest. While the old guard keeps dreaming of 1937 to wake up to 2015. Laws like SB-941 passed because the old guards voice didn't resonate with millennials. Liberal democrats packaged something that most people agree should be in there (private sales circumvent background checks). Ya'll don't resonate with too many people under 40 and outside your little boxes you make for yourselves. Its like a big circle jerk of people who all agree with each other. Engage the populace and win some hearts and minds. I've converted more liberal voters with responsible gun trips than all the money you've spent giving it to the NRA (my dollar/bullet voter conversion rate is 10 times the money the NRA puts to use.)

Hope yall are enjoying your memorial day. I'm going to spend mine with what I define as compentency. ONG soldiers from Bco that just came back from Afghanistan.

NSDQ
Six Guns Don't Miss

Gee, wouldn't it be nice if everyone had lived your life and had your experiences? Then we could all just get along.

Perhaps you might try dismounting your sanctimonious steed? YMMV

 

[GUNARCHER]

must be nice to be so awesome!

And rare!

That is something we can be thankful of.

Elite, condescending, judgmental, superior---- just about says it all

 

[CLT65]

Ok, I'm starting to understand a difference in perspective here, in that your outlook is strictly from a military perspective? We're talking apples and oranges here. The military perspective is irrelevant to me.

I'm not a wannabe or a weekend warrior. I don't care for "tacticool" guns, and I don't own any "tactical" gear. I'm not a survivalist and I'm not "prepping" for any kind of end-of-the-world scenario. I do, however, believe in some old-fashioned American ideals.

One of the founding principals of this country is limited government. Government can be a good thing, and it is a necessary thing. The idea is to have the least amount of government possible for a free and peaceful society. Personally I think we probably need a bit bigger and more complex government than existed 200 years ago, simply because we have a much larger and more complex society, but certainly not the bloated monstrosity that is into everyone's business all the time.

I understand that in the service, the military owns you. It's heavily structured and they know every last thing about you. At times they tell you when, where, and how to eat, sleep, and think. That makes for an efficient and effective fighting force, and some people thrive in that environment. This is not how the civilian world works.

Based on your loathing of anything civilian, and high level of condescension towards us pogues, I suspect that you might have some trouble with certain aspects of freedom in the civilian world. If you want every aspect of life regulated and monitored by big brother for your own safety, maybe you should move elsewhere.

You don't have to be a conspiracy-theory-believing, tinfoil hat wearing, full blown wacko to want to retain a little bit of freedom from governmental control and privacy from bureaucratic intrusion. Government (including military) is the servant of "the people", not the master. As much as I respect the millions of great people who serve in military and government (and I do), a certain level of respectful distrust is healthy in a free society.

Statistically, banning non-government-approved transfers of firearms will not have an effect on crime. This is fact. It would take a much more draconian crackdown, things like universal registration and door to door searches, to make much of a dent at keeping guns away from criminals. Anything less is merely turning the screws to legal gun owners. Passing a law like this simply because it seems like a good idea, makes you feel good, or will force your dirt-bag neighbor to be a little more sneaky about his gun-running, is foolish.

Hey, I got an idea!!! How about we register guns just like we register cars? Great idea!!!

Got an old motorcycle in your garage to sell to a buddy? No registration required unless he rides it on a public road. How about that high performance hot rod you're building to race on a private track? No registration required. How about the redneck neighbor down the road with a dozen old cars and trucks parked around his house and shop? No registration required unless you drive them on the road.

By this logic, about the only guns that would need registered would be hunting rifles used on public lands.

Go ask Canada how that long gun registration worked out.

 

[CLT65]

Oh, and saying things like "I have nothing to hide, let them check me out as much as they want" doesn't cut it.

I'm a rather cautious person. I follow the laws. I'm a supporter of law enforcement. I probably overpay my taxes. I've had many background checks both personally and professionally. I have absolutely nothing to hide.

That said, when I go into the bathroom I close the door. Why? Everyone knows what I'm doing in there. It's no secret, nothing to hide. Why do I close the door? Because it's nobody's business, and it's private!

 

[Sstrand]

Do you suppose . . . just for a moment . . . there may be some on this site who receive a "stipend" from Bloomberg?? HHHHhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm!?!?!?

Sheldon

 

[NoFlinch]

Ok, I'm starting to understand a difference in perspective here...............
Go ask Canada how that long gun registration worked out.

One of the best posts I have read on NWFA

 

[U201491]

Do you suppose . . . just for a moment . . . there may be some on this site who receive a "stipend" from Bloomberg?? HHHHhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm!?!?!?

Sheldon

The number of actual anti's pretending to be pro or the number of borderline anti's and compromisers on this site are sometimes staggering.

 

[Just Jim]

The number of actual anti's pretending to be pro or the number of borderline anti's and compromisers on this site are sometimes staggering.

It's alright, they won't change any minds here. They waste as much time on us as we do them.

 

[U201491]

It's alright, they won't change any minds here. They waste as much time on us as we do them.

We need to find a way to stop them from breeding !

 

[Just Jim]

We need to find a way to stop them from breeding !

Historically they end up killing themselves in a war they start, but the price it cost to stop them is steep. You and I won't be here by the time it all comes down.

 

[U201491]

Historically they end up killing themselves in a war they start, but the price it cost to stop them is steep. You and I won't be here by the time it all comes down.

Oh I have a hunch it will come sooner than you think.

 

[Stomper]

Constitutional freedom and liberty are for slow fatties and retards just the same as it is for high-speed low-drag operators.

 

[Just Jim]

Oh I have a hunch it will come sooner than you think.

No doubt sb941 is a start of something but not much is going to happen for a long while. The young men have been dumb down and feminized so I doubt they will go to war. However they are opening the borders and bringing some in that will fight. Just not enough here for a good ten years to make a difference. By then sb941 should have most gun owners registered.

 

[U201491]

No doubt sb941 is a start of something but not much is going to happen for a long while. The young men have been dumb down and feminized so I doubt they will go to war. However they are opening the borders and bringing some in that will fight. Just not enough here for a good ten years to make a difference. By then sb941 should have most gun owners registered.

It will begin by something far more important than any bill in Oregon or Washington.
Hell will sprout from elsewhere in the US and involve us all.

 

[Just Jim]

It will begin by something far more important than any bill in Oregon or Washington.
Hell will sprout from elsewhere in the US and involve us all.

It will have to come from outside the USA. If you look at people today it can't start at home.

 

[U201491]

It will have to come from outside the USA. If you look at people today it can't start at home.

But it will. It will begin right here on our soil. Watch and see, but be prepped, not idle.

 

[Just Jim]

Sb941 is another cancer given us to destroy our ability to defend ourselves. Not much will happen until all the guns are turned in.

 

[NoFlinch]

The young men have been dumb down and feminized so I doubt they will go to war.

Oh Jimmie.

You are tho thilly.
I can lift 2 sacks of Organic Rice at once...... I'm no feminized person or personette'.

If it's not Organic, I can lift only one at a time, because all the chemicals are so Heavy.

You are a thilly, thilly man........................................

 

[BanjoGeek]

Didn't tak

You will find most of us quit reading when you start with the insults. You only see the world from your jaded eyes and what you post reflects an opinion few will share without the same self centered outlook. No sense in me posting more, it's a waste of words.

Didn't take me long to check out.

 

[etrain16]

Maybe I'm just jaded but I believe that the only way you should be able to get a firearm is by going through a background check and an ID verification. There should NOT be a legal way to get past this. I just disagree that I should legally be able to sell some random stranger who responded to a gun ad a firearm without some way to verify that this person isn't a criminal, is of age to own a firearm, and isn't a mental patient (CHL is usually the best way and I support laws that allow private sales without having to go through an FFL)

Every time I hear this argument, I have to wonder, have you ever sold anything else, say a car, to a stranger? Did it ever cross your mind that you should run a background check on them first? Maybe check to see if they are a bank robber (in which case you just equipped them with a getaway car)? Or maybe check to see if they had their license revoked for repeated DUI's? And you just equipped them with a tool to go out and drive drunk, potentially killing others? Maybe the buyer has no insurance and goes out and hurts someone and can't cover the cost of the medical bills and damage? Maybe they are an illegal alien with no license to drive in this country? As we already know, cars can be just as dangerous, just as deadly as guns - but no one would ever suggest you should require a background check every time you buy or sell a car.

How about selling other things like knives? Hammers? Power tools? All of them are potential weapons, yet no background checks on them either.

With very little effort, anyone can take standard, off-the-shelf fireworks from any legal stand in Oregon, tear them apart (illegally) and turn them into a very destructive explosive device. Maybe it's time to require background checks on them? As kids years ago, we made homemade bombs out of a lot of different things - yes it was stupid, and we were just kids, but it was all stuff you could by legally, over the counter, no background check.

For some reason, people have been brainwashed into thinking that we need to treat the sale of guns, a potentially deadly weapon, differently than all the other potentially deadly weapons. But to take your argument about guns to its logical conclusion, we should reasonably require background checks on many things we buy/sell. If not, then why not? Are deaths by guns somehow worse than deaths by cars? Knives? Hammers? Pressure cooker bombs?

I mean, it would be great to keep all weapons or potential weapons out of the hands of all potential criminals. That's not going to happen. Ever. And passing BS laws like this don't stop criminals from getting guns - it never will. Why? Because criminals don't follow laws. They will find a way around it. They will steal. They will use straw purchases. They will buy from another criminal. All the while, the rest of us are paying more and more money and time to the government so people like you can feel like you did 'something'. When in reality, all you did was to take away the rights of the law-abiding gun owners in this state.

I'll leave you with some CDC stats so you can consider what other items should require background checks:

Deaths by:

Motor Vehicle Accidents: 35,369
Alcohol Induced Deaths: 29,001
Drug Induced Deaths: 46,471
Falls: 30,208
Drowning: 3,391
Poisoning: 38,851
Suicide: 41,149 (21,175 by firearm)
Gun Homicide: 11,208
Accidental Discharge of Firearms: 505

Maybe we also need background checks (oh, and registration too) of ladders, scaffolds, alcohol, swimming pools, bathtubs (or anything else that holds large quantities of water), any chemical or medication of any kind, ropes, etc.

And a big one: Smoking - 480,000 deaths annually, including 48,000 from secondhand smoke. In other words, 4 times more innocent bystanders die due to the results of secondhand smoke every year than die by gun homicide. But yet, we focus all our energy on restricting and regulating guns while tobacco remains the largely untouched (save for HUGE tax revenues ) killer/elephant in the room. The hypocrisy of the people that expend so much effort regulating the sales of guns, in the name of saving lives, yet turn their backs on tobacco blows my mind. At least guns have a variety of good/positive uses, such as self-defense and hunting. Can you say the same for tobacco?

Maybe it's time to require background checks on every pack of cigarettes too? Seems common sense to me, right?

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/