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NSDQ, with my pre-CGA68 history and mindset, I frankly don't give a damn what a buyer does with any of my unregistered guns that I might sell to him/her.
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I find it amusing I have to defend myself for having conflicting views. Just because I enjoy shooting guns doesn't mean I have to tote the party line or it means I'm any less of a supporter of the 2a.
But this whole "if I'm responsible I should trust others will be responsible logic" doesn't work in the civilian world. This mentality always bothered me about private sales.
In fact the "civilian experts" mentality that I run into at every gun shop or gun show simply makes me laugh. Maybe its just a simple distrust of all things civilian. Maybe I just think all of you are pogues, but after glass house drills, MOUT site operations, and miles gear training has made me a snob. Sitting through enough safety briefs. Giving enough death by power point presentations and after action reviews during my military career has made me distrust John Smith Gun who walks up on a gun range. I've experienced enough unsafe action by my own soldiers let alone some mall ninja who decided to buy a membership without formal gun training. Trust/Safety works generally in the military but fog of war is a real thing. Mistakes happened. The truth is I can't stand civilians at gun ranges and over 50 percent of the people I encounter who preach tactical/gun babble for self defense simply lack the real training to even speak.
I see a lot of folks who couldn't pass a military fitness test if their life depended on it preach to me about their range bag full of expensive guns and what they'll do when the SHTF (can this guy run more than 50 meters without collapsing?) but hasn't taken a decent training class. There is a lot of energy into the latest and greatest firearm but not a lot of enthusiasm to drop 1000 bucks on some quality training by professionals these days. Everyone thinks their Jeff Cooper and quite frankly that disturbs me. That isn't to say I haven't met some well trained gun folks on the rare occasion. I met a civilian who completed the thunder ranch courses from Clint Smith a few weeks ago and a boat load of other high speed tactical classes that generally impressed me. Actually. Civilians go take a Thunder Ranch class and ask Clint what he thinks about public ranges hahaha.
The reality is I've been flagged at more ranges than my life can handle. I'm fed up explaining to 40 year old adults about basic firearms safety. Even at more reputable ranges like Tri-County I've encountered idiotic unsafe morons. My favorite being the dual 1911 moron I encountered last week who decided to show off to his "guest" with his uncleaned guns. Moron flagged me when trying to figure out a malfunction. Thats not to say Soldiers were bad enough in my deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan with negligent discharges. Two soldiers were rotated out of my unit for repeat offenses. In fact in Taji and in Al-Asad I heard that loud bang in the chow hall line four times a week because soldiers/marines failed to unload their mag when clearing their weapons. Everyone is hyper vigilant about muzzle awareness but complacency hits even well trained. Actually I've found it hits in the over confident.
Maybe its 10 years as an EMT and working around gun accidents. Crouched over on 162nd at 3am trying to do an assessment on this gangbangers girlfriend because her convicted boyfriend shot her because he didn't realize there was a round in the chamber. Asked where he got the gun? Bought his shiny new hi point from Armslist.
Maybe I'm just jaded but I believe that the only way you should be able to get a firearm is by going through a background check and an ID verification. There should NOT be a legal way to get past this. I just disagree that I should legally be able to sell some random stranger who responded to a gun ad a firearm without some way to verify that this person isn't a criminal, is of age to own a firearm, and isn't a mental patient (CHL is usually the best way and I support laws that allow private sales without having to go through an FFL)
I don't think SB-941 is perfect nor do I think its solution to the problems out there but I do believe its better than nothing. I simply don't find this law that world shattering.
If anything I think the NRA and GOA are stronger now than they were 20 year ago. I'm not particularly afraid of losing the 2a.
I fight gun phobia and fear by taking my liberal friends on shooting trips. People always fear what they don't understand and education and experience goes a long way in converting people to the common sense reality/responsibility of gun ownership than Left side media mumbo jumbo. You gotta convert folks not beat your chest louder on internet forums. At the same time I'm not some NRA can't do no wrong party line moron that can't see outside of the box.
I believe in the 2a and restrictions should be limited to basic common sense.
I just disagree with some of you in what that looks like.
If only I could give you unsafe pukes article 15's at the range.
NSDQ, with my pre-CGA68 history and mindset, I frankly don't give a damn what a buyer does with any of my unregistered guns that I might sell to him/her.
I agree 100%.
But I have no idea what a "pre-CGA68 history" is..........
I find it amusing I have to defend myself for having conflicting views. Just because I enjoy shooting guns doesn't mean I have to tote the party line or it means I'm any less of a supporter of the 2a.
But this whole "if I'm responsible I should trust others will be responsible logic" doesn't work in the civilian world. This mentality always bothered me about private sales.
In fact the "civilian experts" mentality that I run into at every gun shop or gun show simply makes me laugh. Maybe its just a simple distrust of all things civilian. Maybe I just think all of you are pogues, but after glass house drills, MOUT site operations, and miles gear training has made me a snob. Sitting through enough safety briefs. Giving enough death by power point presentations and after action reviews during my military career has made me distrust John Smith Gun who walks up on a gun range. I've experienced enough unsafe action by my own soldiers let alone some mall ninja who decided to buy a membership without formal gun training. Trust/Safety works generally in the military but fog of war is a real thing. Mistakes happened. The truth is I can't stand civilians at gun ranges and over 50 percent of the people I encounter who preach tactical/gun babble for self defense simply lack the real training to even speak.
I see a lot of folks who couldn't pass a military fitness test if their life depended on it preach to me about their range bag full of expensive guns and what they'll do when the SHTF (can this guy run more than 50 meters without collapsing?) but hasn't taken a decent training class. There is a lot of energy into the latest and greatest firearm but not a lot of enthusiasm to drop 1000 bucks on some quality training by professionals these days. Everyone thinks their Jeff Cooper and quite frankly that disturbs me. That isn't to say I haven't met some well trained gun folks on the rare occasion. I met a civilian who completed the thunder ranch courses from Clint Smith a few weeks ago and a boat load of other high speed tactical classes that generally impressed me. Actually. Civilians go take a Thunder Ranch class and ask Clint what he thinks about public ranges hahaha.
The reality is I've been flagged at more ranges than my life can handle. I'm fed up explaining to 40 year old adults about basic firearms safety. Even at more reputable ranges like Tri-County I've encountered idiotic unsafe morons. My favorite being the dual 1911 moron I encountered last week who decided to show off to his "guest" with his uncleaned guns. Moron flagged me when trying to figure out a malfunction. Thats not to say Soldiers were bad enough in my deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan with negligent discharges. Two soldiers were rotated out of my unit for repeat offenses. In fact in Taji and in Al-Asad I heard that loud bang in the chow hall line four times a week because soldiers/marines failed to unload their mag when clearing their weapons. Everyone is hyper vigilant about muzzle awareness but complacency hits even well trained. Actually I've found it hits in the over confident.
Maybe its 10 years as an EMT and working around gun accidents. Crouched over on 162nd at 3am trying to do an assessment on this gangbangers girlfriend because her convicted boyfriend shot her because he didn't realize there was a round in the chamber. Asked where he got the gun? Bought his shiny new hi point from Armslist.
Maybe I'm just jaded but I believe that the only way you should be able to get a firearm is by going through a background check and an ID verification. There should NOT be a legal way to get past this. I just disagree that I should legally be able to sell some random stranger who responded to a gun ad a firearm without some way to verify that this person isn't a criminal, is of age to own a firearm, and isn't a mental patient (CHL is usually the best way and I support laws that allow private sales without having to go through an FFL)
I don't think SB-941 is perfect nor do I think its solution to the problems out there but I do believe its better than nothing. I simply don't find this law that world shattering.
If anything I think the NRA and GOA are stronger now than they were 20 year ago. I'm not particularly afraid of losing the 2a.
I fight gun phobia and fear by taking my liberal friends on shooting trips. People always fear what they don't understand and education and experience goes a long way in converting people to the common sense reality/responsibility of gun ownership than Left side media mumbo jumbo. You gotta convert folks not beat your chest louder on internet forums. At the same time I'm not some NRA can't do no wrong party line moron that can't see outside of the box.
I believe in the 2a and restrictions should be limited to basic common sense.
I just disagree with some of you in what that looks like.
If only I could give you unsafe pukes article 15's at the range.
Maybe I'm just jaded but I believe that the only way you should be able to get a firearm is by going through a background check and an ID verification. There should NOT be a legal way to get past this. I just disagree that I should legally be able to sell some random stranger who responded to a gun ad a firearm without some way to verify that this person isn't a criminal, is of age to own a firearm, and isn't a mental patient (CHL is usually the best way and I support laws that allow private sales without having to go through an FFL)
I don't think SB-941 is perfect nor do I think its solution to the problems out there but I do believe its better than nothing. I simply don't find this law that world shattering.
If anything I think the NRA and GOA are stronger now than they were 20 year ago. I'm not particularly afraid of losing the 2a.
So, my takeaway from your post is, "I'm awesome but no one else should be trusted with any firearms". Kinda fits the Bloomy narrative. Enough of the "common sense" BS already.I find it amusing I have to defend myself for having conflicting views. Just because I enjoy shooting guns doesn't mean I have to tote the party line or it means I'm any less of a supporter of the 2a.
But this whole "if I'm responsible I should trust others will be responsible logic" doesn't work in the civilian world. This mentality always bothered me about private sales.
In fact the "civilian experts" mentality that I run into at every gun shop or gun show simply makes me laugh. Maybe its just a simple distrust of all things civilian. Maybe I just think all of you are pogues, but after glass house drills, MOUT site operations, and miles gear training has made me a snob. Sitting through enough safety briefs. Giving enough death by power point presentations and after action reviews during my military career has made me distrust John Smith Gun who walks up on a gun range. I've experienced enough unsafe action by my own soldiers let alone some mall ninja who decided to buy a membership without formal gun training. Trust/Safety works generally in the military but fog of war is a real thing. Mistakes happened. The truth is I can't stand civilians at gun ranges and over 50 percent of the people I encounter who preach tactical/gun babble for self defense simply lack the real training to even speak.
I see a lot of folks who couldn't pass a military fitness test if their life depended on it preach to me about their range bag full of expensive guns and what they'll do when the SHTF (can this guy run more than 50 meters without collapsing?) but hasn't taken a decent training class. There is a lot of energy into the latest and greatest firearm but not a lot of enthusiasm to drop 1000 bucks on some quality training by professionals these days. Everyone thinks their Jeff Cooper and quite frankly that disturbs me. That isn't to say I haven't met some well trained gun folks on the rare occasion. I met a civilian who completed the thunder ranch courses from Clint Smith a few weeks ago and a boat load of other high speed tactical classes that generally impressed me. Actually. Civilians go take a Thunder Ranch class and ask Clint what he thinks about public ranges hahaha.
The reality is I've been flagged at more ranges than my life can handle. I'm fed up explaining to 40 year old adults about basic firearms safety. Even at more reputable ranges like Tri-County I've encountered idiotic unsafe morons. My favorite being the dual 1911 moron I encountered last week who decided to show off to his "guest" with his uncleaned guns. Moron flagged me when trying to figure out a malfunction. Thats not to say Soldiers were bad enough in my deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan with negligent discharges. Two soldiers were rotated out of my unit for repeat offenses. In fact in Taji and in Al-Asad I heard that loud bang in the chow hall line four times a week because soldiers/marines failed to unload their mag when clearing their weapons. Everyone is hyper vigilant about muzzle awareness but complacency hits even well trained. Actually I've found it hits in the over confident.
Maybe its 10 years as an EMT and working around gun accidents. Crouched over on 162nd at 3am trying to do an assessment on this gangbangers girlfriend because her convicted boyfriend shot her because he didn't realize there was a round in the chamber. Asked where he got the gun? Bought his shiny new hi point from Armslist.
Maybe I'm just jaded but I believe that the only way you should be able to get a firearm is by going through a background check and an ID verification. There should NOT be a legal way to get past this. I just disagree that I should legally be able to sell some random stranger who responded to a gun ad a firearm without some way to verify that this person isn't a criminal, is of age to own a firearm, and isn't a mental patient (CHL is usually the best way and I support laws that allow private sales without having to go through an FFL)
I don't think SB-941 is perfect nor do I think its solution to the problems out there but I do believe its better than nothing. I simply don't find this law that world shattering.
If anything I think the NRA and GOA are stronger now than they were 20 year ago. I'm not particularly afraid of losing the 2a.
I fight gun phobia and fear by taking my liberal friends on shooting trips. People always fear what they don't understand and education and experience goes a long way in converting people to the common sense reality/responsibility of gun ownership than Left side media mumbo jumbo. You gotta convert folks not beat your chest louder on internet forums. At the same time I'm not some NRA can't do no wrong party line moron that can't see outside of the box.
I believe in the 2a and restrictions should be limited to basic common sense.
I just disagree with some of you in what that looks like.
If only I could give you unsafe pukes article 15's at the range.
I suggest we drop the words "Common Sense" from our vocabulary
I have often wondered of ALL gun sales (private & dealer) what percentage are FTF/private. Anyone know this or have a good guess?
I suggest we drop the words "Common Sense" from our vocabulary When a demoncrat uses the term it comes out as a single word, commonsense," as in the way the emperor says it. As such it is political-speak for "You are about to get screwed.'
Once again the liberals have been allowed to hijack the language!!!!
Sheldon
I find it amusing I have to defend myself for having conflicting views. Just because I enjoy shooting guns doesn't mean I have to tote the party line or it means I'm any less of a supporter of the 2a.
But this whole "if I'm responsible I should trust others will be responsible logic" doesn't work in the civilian world. This mentality always bothered me about private sales.
In fact the "civilian experts" mentality that I run into at every gun shop or gun show simply makes me laugh. Maybe its just a simple distrust of all things civilian. Maybe I just think all of you are pogues, but after glass house drills, MOUT site operations, and miles gear training has made me a snob. Sitting through enough safety briefs. Giving enough death by power point presentations and after action reviews during my military career has made me distrust John Smith Gun who walks up on a gun range. I've experienced enough unsafe action by my own soldiers let alone some mall ninja who decided to buy a membership without formal gun training. Trust/Safety works generally in the military but fog of war is a real thing. Mistakes happened. The truth is I can't stand civilians at gun ranges and over 50 percent of the people I encounter who preach tactical/gun babble for self defense simply lack the real training to even speak.
I see a lot of folks who couldn't pass a military fitness test if their life depended on it preach to me about their range bag full of expensive guns and what they'll do when the SHTF (can this guy run more than 50 meters without collapsing?) but hasn't taken a decent training class. There is a lot of energy into the latest and greatest firearm but not a lot of enthusiasm to drop 1000 bucks on some quality training by professionals these days. Everyone thinks their Jeff Cooper and quite frankly that disturbs me. That isn't to say I haven't met some well trained gun folks on the rare occasion. I met a civilian who completed the thunder ranch courses from Clint Smith a few weeks ago and a boat load of other high speed tactical classes that generally impressed me. Actually. Civilians go take a Thunder Ranch class and ask Clint what he thinks about public ranges hahaha.
The reality is I've been flagged at more ranges than my life can handle. I'm fed up explaining to 40 year old adults about basic firearms safety. Even at more reputable ranges like Tri-County I've encountered idiotic unsafe morons. My favorite being the dual 1911 moron I encountered last week who decided to show off to his "guest" with his uncleaned guns. Moron flagged me when trying to figure out a malfunction. Thats not to say Soldiers were bad enough in my deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan with negligent discharges. Two soldiers were rotated out of my unit for repeat offenses. In fact in Taji and in Al-Asad I heard that loud bang in the chow hall line four times a week because soldiers/marines failed to unload their mag when clearing their weapons. Everyone is hyper vigilant about muzzle awareness but complacency hits even well trained. Actually I've found it hits in the over confident.
Maybe its 10 years as an EMT and working around gun accidents. Crouched over on 162nd at 3am trying to do an assessment on this gangbangers girlfriend because her convicted boyfriend shot her because he didn't realize there was a round in the chamber. Asked where he got the gun? Bought his shiny new hi point from Armslist.
Maybe I'm just jaded but I believe that the only way you should be able to get a firearm is by going through a background check and an ID verification. There should NOT be a legal way to get past this. I just disagree that I should legally be able to sell some random stranger who responded to a gun ad a firearm without some way to verify that this person isn't a criminal, is of age to own a firearm, and isn't a mental patient (CHL is usually the best way and I support laws that allow private sales without having to go through an FFL)
I don't think SB-941 is perfect nor do I think its solution to the problems out there but I do believe its better than nothing. I simply don't find this law that world shattering.
If anything I think the NRA and GOA are stronger now than they were 20 year ago. I'm not particularly afraid of losing the 2a.
I fight gun phobia and fear by taking my liberal friends on shooting trips. People always fear what they don't understand and education and experience goes a long way in converting people to the common sense reality/responsibility of gun ownership than Left side media mumbo jumbo. You gotta convert folks not beat your chest louder on internet forums. At the same time I'm not some NRA can't do no wrong party line moron that can't see outside of the box.
I believe in the 2a and restrictions should be limited to basic common sense.
I just disagree with some of you in what that looks like.
If only I could give you unsafe pukes article 15's at the range.
I find it amusing I have to defend myself for having conflicting views. Just because I enjoy shooting guns doesn't mean I have to tote the party line or it means I'm any less of a supporter of the 2a.
But this whole "if I'm responsible I should trust others will be responsible logic" doesn't work in the civilian world. This mentality always bothered me about private sales.
In fact the "civilian experts" mentality that I run into at every gun shop or gun show simply makes me laugh. Maybe its just a simple distrust of all things civilian. Maybe I just think all of you are pogues, but after glass house drills, MOUT site operations, and miles gear training has made me a snob.
"I believe in the 2nd amendment, BUT." That right there pretty well disqualifies your whole opinion. That and stereotyping everyone on this board,,,
I'm just responding to being stereotyped for sharing a different opinion.
I make the distinction between government and laws. I don't subscribe to bloated LE agencies overseeing gun laws. Rather, I make the case that well thought out laws can prevent and eliminate the need.
This entire idea that make and model of your firearms will suddenly lead to a Kafka esque nightmare always makes me laugh. The government has the make and model of your vehicle. Oh no.. The DMV is going to take our vehicles away... Why is it important for them to have records? So if vehicles are used in a criminal way they can hold you accountable. Your tin foil hat needs a little more tin foil. For these reasons I have never had a problem with the government knowing the make and model of my vehicle and I share this opinion about my firearms. Government has a god damn DNA sample from me and a personnel history roster from my security clearance evaluation tests from military service. I could care less about them knowing the make and serial number of my firearm.
The old "FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS" guard has never resonated with me. A throw back to a past of my grandfathers World War II mindset generation and my fathers Vietnam experience. Yet as part of the next military generation I've found this thought process regressive. Times change and so do laws. Laws have to adapt to changing world that is changing faster and faster. This entire mindset that ALL laws must be stricken down has led to the watered down political process that never ends up producing qualitative legislation. I've spent 3 years of my life fighting regressive regimes with unyielding political,cultural, and religious ideals.
I'm part of a large number of veterans coming back to the ridiculous circus in the modern gun community. Plagued with overweight civilians wearing military uniforms (a disgrace to the uniform), with "tier 1 operator beards" and almost on cue with civilian gun marketing schemes the windfall of new purchases based on the latest and greatest syndrome fueled by a billion dollar industry trying to sell the tactical defense crowd the "SPECIAL OPERATIONS/NAVY SEAL" image of machoism. The irony never escapes me that statistically speaking a good majority of these consumers have a higher percentage chance of dying from heart disease or diabetes and that the biggest threat to themselves is their own BMI (seriously that wilson combat 1911 isn't going protect all those years of life you're losing to 35 percent body fat.)
I don't doubt there are some good shooters on here. Some that can put me to shame on some stationary paper targets with bright red target indicators. I don't doubt that the average guy on here might put in 150-250 rounds a week and be pretty decent after a few years. A good majority of the shooters I encounter haven't taken any real world defensive classes by some folks with real world modern training respected by law enforcement and military operator types (THUNDER RANCH COUH COUGH). I see a whole lot of fancy shiny new guns and a whole lot of grand standing about all the bells and whistles. Not a lot of bragging about training. Training isn't an instant gratification toy to make your friends jealous.
What is really at stake? Losing out to the really scary laws being pushed in the midwest. While the old guard keeps dreaming of 1937 to wake up to 2015. Laws like SB-941 passed because the old guards voice didn't resonate with millennials. Liberal democrats packaged something that most people agree should be in there (private sales circumvent background checks). Ya'll don't resonate with too many people under 40 and outside your little boxes you make for yourselves. Its like a big circle jerk of people who all agree with each other. Engage the populace and win some hearts and minds. I've converted more liberal voters with responsible gun trips than all the money you've spent giving it to the NRA (my dollar/bullet voter conversion rate is 10 times the money the NRA puts to use.)
Hope yall are enjoying your memorial day. I'm going to spend mine with what I define as compentency. ONG soldiers from Bco that just came back from Afghanistan.
NSDQ
Six Guns Don't Miss