Russian sniper rifle in Ukraine conflict

[Certaindeaf]

You just know there are probably 500 thermal scopes just murdering Russians in Ukraine right now.
The Russians have zero night vision hardware whatsoever.

 

[shibbershabber]

are you old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? I am. my father was stationed at Barksdale in Louisiana and was a Photo recon officer with a U-2 unit. I personally saw actual photos of those missiles, not internet propaganda
he told me at the age of 12 that if Cuba launched, we didn't have a chance there in Bossier City, so don't even worry about it

I also spent 3 years in Europe with NATO in the '70s - we were not threatening Russia, but providing defensive support for an actual Soviet threat
again, I lived within a 30 min flight from East Germany with nuclear armed tactical aircraft - kiss your A-- goodbye if they ever crossed that boarder

what weapons of mass destruction were in Ukraine aimed at Russia? documentation please
I'm not challenging you, just looking for information

The argument from Russia was that they are attacking Ukraine to destroy their military infrastructure and force peace terms that will ensure Ukraines neutrality, guaranteeing that it wont be a host for NATO bases, troops or weapons. Basically making the national security argument to justify the war.

Cuban missile crisis was just one example of Americas unwillingness to have adversarial powers stationing so close to our borders. I get that nuclear weapons were present in that situation… but what about Bay of Pigs? We didnt have a direct threat from Cuba at that time like during the CMC… and yet we tried to invade anyway.

Or even the smaller, more clandestine conflicts, coups, etc that we fostered throughout latin America during the cold war… we simply could not tolerate our enemy operating in our own back yard.

So while there arent WMDs in Ukraine… that doesnt mean that there isnt a threat as perceived by Russia. As I mentioned before, NATO has continued to expand eastward, even after agreeing not to.

So, from Russias perspective… they are no longer part of the USSR, there is no more Warsaw Pact. Yet there is still NATO… and NATO keeps coming closer and closer… then came talk of Ukraines membership… Ukraine is a pretty nice spot for a ground invasion of Russia… nevermind a great place to host missiles/missile defense… Just because its not there now doesnt mean that they wont be there once theyre a NATO member

Suggesting that Russians overthrow Putin because he went into Ukraine is like suggesting that the US overthrow Kennedy over Bay of Pigs & CMC.

Of course none of that perspective is allowed in the media, maybe because some people might relate to it… or maybe that people will realize that we could have stopped it from happening. But that would make our weak, ineffectual leadership look bad, and we cant have that

 

[JuglansRegia]

/\ the Nato expansion is the excuse for the invasion. The real reason is a major land grab, and Putin is a dictator so he can't have Ukraine joining the EU which will result in economic growth in Ukraine which his people will notice and thus will become a challenge to his rule.

 

[shibbershabber]

/\ the Nato expansion is the excuse for the invasion. The real reason is a major land grab, and Putin is a dictator so he can't have Ukraine joining the EU which will result in economic growth in Ukraine which his people will notice and thus will become a challenge to his rule.

If you look at GDP growth charts, especially among the poorer EU members, the growth has been at a similar rate to what it was before acceptance.

EU membership or not, Ukraine will never be an economic powerhouse. Its acceptance will just lead to favorable trade terms for western Europeans to buy ag products cheaper and maybe open up another cheap labor market.

Ukraine would be to Europe what Mexico is to N. America.

Mexico has 3x the population, but has 10x the GDP compared to Ukraine... Both countries rife with corruption and poverty while the guys at the top rip them off like velcro.
Wealth, trade & industry hasnt pushed the Mexican people to shake off their BS leadership.
So I highly doubt some economic boom in Ukraine is going to spur revolution in Russia.

Your argument rings of "they hate us for our freedoms"

 

[shibbershabber]

I think we made the same argument with China... If we open our markets to them and send our factories to them, the people will inevitably embrace western Capitalism and throw off their Communist leadership.

Howd that work out?

 

[Certaindeaf]

If you look at GDP growth charts, especially among the poorer EU members, the growth has been at a similar rate to what it was before acceptance.

EU membership or not, Ukraine will never be an economic powerhouse. Its acceptance will just lead to favorable trade terms for western Europeans to buy ag products cheaper and maybe open up another cheap labor market.

Ukraine would be to Europe what Mexico is to N. America.

Mexico has 3x the population, but has 10x the GDP compared to Ukraine... Both countries rife with corruption and poverty while the guys at the top rip them off like velcro.
Wealth, trade & industry hasnt pushed the Mexican people to shake off their BS leadership.
So I highly doubt some economic boom in Ukraine is going to spur revolution in Russia.

Your argument rings of "they hate us for our freedoms"

The important takeaway is Ukraine is kicking a bloodthirsty tryant in the nuts, not GDP comparisons.

 

[Ura-Ki]

If you look at GDP growth charts, especially among the poorer EU members, the growth has been at a similar rate to what it was before acceptance.

EU membership or not, Ukraine will never be an economic powerhouse. Its acceptance will just lead to favorable trade terms for western Europeans to buy ag products cheaper and maybe open up another cheap labor market.

Ukraine would be to Europe what Mexico is to N. America.

Mexico has 3x the population, but has 10x the GDP compared to Ukraine... Both countries rife with corruption and poverty while the guys at the top rip them off like velcro.
Wealth, trade & industry hasnt pushed the Mexican people to shake off their BS leadership.
So I highly doubt some economic boom in Ukraine is going to spur revolution in Russia.

Your argument rings of "they hate us for our freedoms"

Not Quite!
Ukraine is a major player in the tech sector as well as military and civil aviation, not to mention farming, mining, food production, and other "Advanced" production sectors! To Say the Ukraine outstrips Russia in this would be a vast understatement, to say they will never advance to a position of power, possibly even the biggest player in all of Europe, Highly Likely!

Putin is a thug who wants to keep the Ukraine down and keep his boot on there necks, if they are allowed to advance out from under Russian control, no telling how big they become, and how much Russia would now be forced to depend on them, and how much Russia would have to spend to buy things it needs from them! Follow the money!

Kill the corruption, and you solve all the major problems, that is mostly Russian anyway, so cleaning up the Ukraine wouldn't be all that difficult once they kick Russias arse!

 

[308]

The Brandon admin are sending 'defensive' weapons to Ukraine, so those Ruskies better run now. Jen explains:

 

[shibbershabber]

Not Quite!
Ukraine is a major player in the tech sector as well as military and civil aviation, not to mention farming, mining, food production, and other "Advanced" production sectors! To Say the Ukraine outstrips Russia in this would be a vast understatement, to say they will never advance to a position of power, possibly even the biggest player in all of Europe, Highly Likely!

Putin is a thug who wants to keep the Ukraine down and keep his boot on there necks, if they are allowed to advance out from under Russian control, no telling how big they become, and how much Russia would now be forced to depend on them, and how much Russia would have to spend to buy things it needs from them! Follow the money!

Kill the corruption, and you solve all the major problems, that is mostly Russian anyway, so cleaning up the Ukraine wouldn't be all that difficult once they kick Russias arse!

I dont see it.
They are even more corrupt than Russia is! And that's saying something.

Regarding their separation from Russia...
Their GDP was steadily rising thru the 2000s amd took a hit when things went to bubblegum in 08, but then rose sharply soon after, peaking at an all time high in 2013
Then the EuroMaidan coup happened (where the Russia-friendly Prez was ousted because he didnt want to join EU) and GDP tanked. It bottomed out lower than it did in 08 even.
It's rising again, but not even close to its pre-Maidan highs.
So I'm not sure if being Eurocentric is working out for them, at least not after 8 years of anti-Russian leadership.


EU membership will bring some prosperity... But mostly I see it being exploited as a cheap labor market as some of the other former Soviet members have been.

I stand by my Mexico analogy

 

[shibbershabber]

The important takeaway is Ukraine is kicking a bloodthirsty tryant in the nuts, not GDP comparisons.

bloodthirsty tyrant....


*Truck horns are terrorism
*Capitol trespassers are terroists
*Covid vax is safe & effective
*Lockdown protests spread covid, BLM doesnt
*Two weeks to flatten the curve
*They hate us for our freedoms
*Fight them over there so we dont have to here
*Mushroom cloud over DC
*WMDs in Iraq
*Iraqi soldiers killed babies in incubators
*Vietnam attacked our ship in Tonkin
*Domino Theory
*Pearl Harbor was a surprise
*The Kaiser is killing babies

... Bloodthirsty tyrant, thanks, Ill add that to the list

 

[peteNW503]

From what I have seen the Russian's like to run suppressed guns check out the AS VAL somebody picked up off a dead Russian #Pricey!

 

[sobo]

The Brandon admin are sending 'defensive' weapons to Ukraine, so those Ruskies better run now. Jen explains:

Good God, I can't even listen to that c*nt anymore... "It's all Trump's fault" is her recurring and never-ending schtick...

 

[JuglansRegia]

Here is what the govt of Ukraine is claiming, if half of it is true, it would be very devastating for the Russian military given its for only a month of combat. I have been watching a lot of youtube videos of the carnage, there is A LOT of destroyed Russian armor on the battlefield, sometimes a convoy is so charred its hard to tell but you usually you can still see some tell tale letters painted on charred vehicles. Even though a lot of the equipment is used by both sides, some of it is exclusive to only one of the parties. Anyways, I think the Russians are headed for humiliating defeat much like their Serb comrades did in the 90's when they road into combat on new shiny tanks and five years later fled in defeat with their tails between their legs riding old tractors towing home made trailers.

 

[shibbershabber]

Russian advance so far.

From French source, dont read French... But the map gives an idea of the situation

 

[raftman]

If you believe they've already lost more personnel in 4 weeks than they did in 10 years in Afghanistan or Chechnya in 94-96, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.

 

[DirectDrive]

It's hard to tell what's really going on over there.
It is pretty clear though that the Russians are running into more resistance than they probably expected.
And the sandbag racks on top of the Russian tanks indicate that the Javelins must be working.

Interesting recent comments from a former tanker...

 

[JuglansRegia]

If you believe they've already lost more personnel in 4 weeks than they did in 10 years in Afghanistan or Chechnya in 94-96, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.

If you think Russia is still some kind of a super power, I have a cat that Sh!&s gold nuggets I could sell you. The Russian army went into Ukraine 10 feet tall, but they will come out 5'2" like their leader. Worse yet, they made themselves enemy number one of the free world and will pay the price for decades to come.

 

[shibbershabber]

If you think Russia is still some kind of a super power, I have a cat that Sh!&s gold nuggets I could sell you. The Russian army went into Ukraine 10 feet tall, but they will come out 5'2" like their leader. Worse yet, they made themselves enemy number one of the free world and will pay the price for decades to come.

They're enemy number one alright...

But the 'free world' part had me confused

 

[raftman]

If you think Russia is still some kind of a super power, I have a cat that Sh!&s gold nuggets I could sell you. The Russian army went into Ukraine 10 feet tall, but they will come out 5'2" like their leader. Worse yet, they made themselves enemy number one of the free world and will pay the price for decades to come.

No need to get all mad just because the absurdity of unverified figures was pointed out.

I don't have a personal stake in the outcome, don't mind being proven wrong, am an adult, etc... I just think all the blustery talk about Russia's imminent doom and defeat is a little pointless, if not silly, given the quality of evidence to support it thus far.

 

[shibbershabber]

If you think Russia is still some kind of a super power, I have a cat that Sh!&s gold nuggets I could sell you. The Russian army went into Ukraine 10 feet tall, but they will come out 5'2" like their leader. Worse yet, they made themselves enemy number one of the free world and will pay the price for decades to come.

As they're not a superpower anymore and are pretty much a joke...

I wonder why 100s of billions are spent by US & NATO to counter them?

Why does NATO need to keep expanding its membetship?

Why do we need to keep printing money to fund this little adventure if a country like the mighty democracy of Ukraine can being them to heel in less than a month?