Recommendation for a bear gun.

[Xaevian]

Bowhunting the Blue Mountains for decades before it was legal to carry a firearm while doing so, I was very conscious of the presence of bears, saw them rather frequently, and when they came close, I killed them and ate them.

Much hulabaloo here about a shy wild animal that wants very little to do with people.

View attachment 1812366

With a bow? Hope it was at least a 10mm bow! /jk.

The fact that a bear would wander close enough to you while you were bow hunting says more about your skill at being unseen, silent, and unscented than the behavior of the bear.

Unless you had pockets full of granola and snacks or were using bait. All you have to do here is leave your garbage can out a couple days. Bird feeders are a real problem too.

This is just in my county: https://missoulabears.org/updates-and-sightings/
This is a sighting report page. They haven't killed my chickens or attacked my enclosure, but grizzlies have been reported in my area as recently as last September. They are in hibernation now, so not much until spring.

@GripItAndRipIt this was a reply to someone else, so not directed at you or your very specific needs.

 

[solv3nt]

If it was a statistical argument then we shouldnt allow CHLs because your far more likely to injure someone with your gun than need it in self defense.

All of the statistics that I've heard don't match with that. I'm interested in what statistics you've heard though.

 

[DirectDrive]

I think the thing to do now is get Dad to one a them fancy indoor ranges w A/C and rental guns available so he can fire them side-by-side. Thanks for your input.

Yes, that's the thing to do.
Your Dad may find that he shoots a particular semi-auto very well.
I wouldn't feel under-gunned with a 9mm in black bear country.
Definitely do the try-out at the rental range.

 

[Koda]

All of the statistics that I've heard don't match with that. I'm interested in what statistics you've heard though.

Im not advocating for any statistical argument but Everytown has plenty of well researched statistics that supports that subject.

Edit for full context Everytown is full of sh!t on their "statistics".

 

[solv3nt]

Im not advocating for any statistical argument but Everytown has plenty of well researched statistics that supports that subject.

Every town also uses gang shootings in their statistics and school shootings.

My point is that no matter what you choose, you're better than not having anything.

 

[OldBroad44]

@GripItAndRipIt -- exactly what make and model of .44 mag revolver does your dad have?

And exactly what ammo is he carrying for SD against bears? And does he practice primarily with that and if not exactly what?

(Lets see if we can make very specific suggestions as to what ammo would give him less recoil but would be just as good, possibly even better for SD against black bears.)

 

[Bobbygun]

The fact that a bear would wander close enough to you while you were bow hunting says more about your skill at being unseen, silent, and unscented than the behavior of the bear.

I had one charge me while bowhunting one time. Not because I was silent and unseen - I'm old and very hard of hearing - but because I was squeaking one of those Hoochie Mama calf elk calls. He thought he was charging in for an easy meal! He did reverse course rather quickly when he got to about 30 yards and realized I didn't look much like an elk. Beautiful bear. About the same color as a chocolate lab.

 

[Tlock]

I had one charge me while bowhunting one time. Not because I was silent and unseen - I'm old and very hard of hearing - but because I was squeaking one of those Hoochie Mama calf elk calls. He thought he was charging in for an easy meal! He did reverse course rather quickly when he got to about 30 yards and realized I didn't look much like an elk. Beautiful bear. About the same color as a chocolate lab.

I've seen some really pretty ones over the years. I've only killed 2 blonds in the last 20 years.

 

[solv3nt]

I've seen some really pretty ones over the years. I've only killed 2 blonds in the last 20 years.

Good thing I prefer brunettes.

 

[Spitpatch]

Not real sure, but it looks like a couple 10mm's in that pile of bones next to the plaid shirt.

 

[Xaevian]

If it was a statistical argument then we shouldnt allow CHLs because your far more likely to injure someone with your gun than need it in self defense.

You are far more likely to need that CHL/CPL than be attacked by a bear. Don't be intentionally obtuse.

1 in 2.1 million. That is the odds of a bear attack in the US. But that is an average that includes where the attacks are more common, like AK, WY, and MT. Since the 1970s, there have been 2 wild bear attacks in AZ. This is another fine example of availability bias.

If people want to carry in the woods (or anywhere else for that matter), by all means, that is your right (unless it is hunting season and you don't have a proper license). You don't need an excuse. An irrational fear of a statistical near-impossibility isn't a good excuse anyway.

Just be aware that if you shoot a bear in a national park, even in self defense, you are highly statistically going to jail. And will lose your rights to carry anywhere.

 

[Koda]

You are far more likely to need that CHL/CPL than be attacked by a bear. Don't be intentionally obtuse.

Yes i know, i wasnt saying that.

 

[OldBroad44]

Other than @Tlock who works with bears, I don't believe that any active member happens to be one of the ten per year.

That said, @Tlock uses a 22lr.

@Tlock uses a suppressed .22 rifle on the job to dispose of problem bears in populated places where not loosening a powerful round is an issue. As is quietness and discretion. The bears are treed, trapped, or some distance off where he does not think he is likely to be attacked. And he is likely also carrying a .44 mag revolver in case things go south, and another rifle or shotgun in case something more than a .22 is needed to take the bear in the particular situation where he finds it. For standard SD against bears in the woods, he carries a .44 mag. Is this right, @Tlock?

In places where hunting bears with dogs and taking them with .22s is legal, .22 is often used to kill treed bears. It is hard for a bullet to penetrate the skull of an attacking bear because the brain is protected in front by very thick bones and their orientation is very sloped. So it is easy for bullets to fail to penetrate or deflect off. Hunters taking treed bears can reliably kill them by shooting them in the side of the head with a .22. The bone in the side of the head is relatively thin compared with the thick plate in front. And its orientation is not severely sloped relative to the hunter.

Hogs present a problem similar to bears. They have very thick sloped skull in front. If one is charging you you need the same kinds of guns and ammo as you need for bear SD. But it is easy to kill a hog with even a 22 shot in the side of the head.

 

[bradsteen]

It might be too much extra weight, but a mare's leg would enable 2-handed shooting and might make recoil easier to manage. Just a thought.

Big Boy Mare’s Leg Side Gate | Henry Repeating Arms

www.henryusa.com

 

[Tlock]

@Tlock uses a suppressed .22 rifle on the job to dispose of problem bears in populated places where not loosening a powerful round is an issue. As is quietness and discretion. The bears are treed, trapped, or some distance off where he does not think he is likely to be attacked. And he is likely also carrying a .44 mag revolver in case things go south, and another rifle or shotgun in case something more than a .22 is needed to take the bear in the particular situation where he finds it. For standard SD against bears in the woods, he carries a .44 mag. Is this right, @Tlock?

In places where hunting bears with dogs and taking them with .22s is legal, .22 is often used to kill treed bears. It is hard for a bullet to penetrate the skull of an attacking bear because the brain is protected in front by very thick bones and their orientation is very sloped. So it is easy for bullets to fail to penetrate or deflect off. Hunters taking treed bears can reliably kill them by shooting them in the side of the head with a .22. The bone in the side of the head is relatively thin compared with the thick plate in front. And its orientation is not severely sloped relative to the hunter.

Hogs present a problem similar to bears. They have very thick sloped skull in front. If one is charging you you need the same kinds of guns and ammo as you need for bear SD. But it is easy to kill a hog with even a 22 shot in the side of the head.

Yep 44 mag for black bears and 460sw for Alaska when fishing

 

[OldBroad44]

If it was a statistical argument then we shouldnt allow CHLs because your far more likely to injure someone with your gun than need it in self defense.

False.
There is no way to know how many times guns are used in self defense because most of the time the attacker stops attacking and runs and no shots are fired. Most such cases are not reported at all. And if reported they are probably not usually counted as a gun "use". I've used a gun in a defensive situation four times. Two attempted home invasions, one case where I accidentally interrupted a burglar and he charged me, and one case where I chased off a would-be rapist who had attacked a woman in the parking lot behind my rooming house. In all cases the evil doer changed his mind about his current activity and withdrew rapidly. No shots were fired. I reported only two of them, and only because I was living in places where LE was not rabidly against citizens having guns at all, and there was a real possibility of catching the guy or there was still a potential threat to my neighbors. And because I had a naive and trusting attitude toward LE. These days, Oregon courts and LE on average seem to love and want to protect criminals and to hate citizens with guns. I do now, alas, think it foolish to report anything unless I am legally obligated . Such as having a body in my home I needed to explain. (All you fellow NWFA members who are active or retired LE, the words " on average" were for you. You undoubtedly have a much friendlier than average attitude toward citizens having guns. But if I report something I can't count on getting one of you.)

 

[Koda]

False.
There is no way to know how many times guns are used in self defense because most of the time the attacker stops attacking and runs and no shots are fired.

I was referring to bear attacks.

Note: I dont support gun control, and that wasnt the context of the subject, it was an analogy of what anti gunners use to justify not carrying guns.

 

[orygun]

Then again...
I also don't over worry or wonder about bears attacking me either.....
Andy

I've spent a fair amount of time in the woods and some of it a long ways away from anyone. Often times doing my best to stay motionless and silent. In that time I have seen 2 bears. One saw me and was curious until I stood up. Then he ran the other way. The second had no clue I was sitting in plain sight. I watched him as he ambled by. It was cool.
I've thought that I would be using a gun against a dog more times than anything else.

 

[Bobbygun]

I've seen some really pretty ones over the years. I've only killed 2 blonds in the last 20 years.

I've only ever seen one blonde bear. Probably about 10 years go just off a road by Lemolo Lake. Beautiful bear, but not a very big one - maybe 175 pounds. I've seen some reddish bears and some brownish bears, but 2/3 of the bears I've seen were black. Another cool one was a dark black bear with a buckskin muzzle.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I've spent a fair amount of time in the woods and some of it a long ways away from anyone. Often times doing my best to stay motionless and silent. In that time I have seen 2 bears. One saw me and was curious until I stood up. Then he ran the other way. The second had no clue I was sitting in plain sight. I watched him as he ambled by. It was cool.
I've thought that I would be using a gun against a dog more times than anything else.

I have seen quite a few black bears...and hunted many....
I am sure that far more of them have seen me and ambled off before I noticed them.

While I have never hunted grizzly bear...I have seen some...
Again I am sure that most have wandered off away from me before I got with sighting distance.

I have never been worried about being attacked by either of them.
Not saying that it couldn't happen...Just saying that I ain't worried about it.
Andy