Portal axles pros/cons, why/why not?

[CamoDeafie]

Not really serious, because VERY expensive compared to lift kits...
Lets suppose I acquire eventually a 4x4 vehicle.... most likely a Jeep Cherokee, or CJ type... very possibly a toyota 4x4 van, or something similar... or Chevy Blazer S10 (as opposed to K5, that would be sweet to find in CUCV diesel trim for a better price than a Wrangler lol)

So some researching indicate that I would want to keep suspension/steering geometry the same as original; which led me to this concept... portal axles. There are a couple companies doing bolt ons... one in US seems to be for the larger 14 bolt GM axles and the Dana 60 axles... one in Europe, does them for Toyotas, Volvos, Suzuki Jimney (related to Sidekick/Samurai maybe?) As well as Jeep...

Other than them being VERY expensive.. what are the pros and cons of portal axles??

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[Meridian7750]

Not an expert by any means, but some advantages I remember from my wheelin' days are 1) increased ground clearance (the axle is not inline with the hub of the wheel, but rather much higher,
And 2) phenomenal gear reduction, as the portal hubs each contain their own set of reduction gears.

I'm sure there are more, but these were the 2 that caught my eye.
Never pulled the trigger though...

 

[CamoDeafie]

The ground clearance, gear reduction potential, and keeping stock suspension/steering geometries all made me wonder about them... one of my concerns though.. unsprung weights? For the units with the Dana 60 axles, they seem to be designed for 16.5-17" or bigger truck wheels.. like those found on mil Hummers... but for the other companies stuff, they look like they'll work great with 15s, even with large backspaces... since in theory, the bolt on units pushes the hubs out a bit... but if the US sourced ones requires at least 1 ton axles or so.. then that would mean a v8 or straight 6 4x4 vehicle...?

 

[powermad]

Just get a Mog. Already has them on there.

Cool if you have the money to burn, smaller and better ground clearance.

If I was going to wheel my Land Cruiser I'd just three link the front and run 37's.
Even with coilovers it would be tons cheaper.
Front diff is a high pinion and they are 1 ton rated as is.

 

[CamoDeafie]

If got $ I'd go for the Steyr Puch Haflinger or the full bodied Pinzgauer

Other than the very high expense of the portal axles, what are the cons of them?

I'd like to see an US made M151 type with portal axles..... something in the size range of the older TJ Wranger/CJ5, independent 4 wheel suspension, 4 wheel drive, and portal axles....maybe hardtop? Probably impossible to find in the US...

 

[cigars]

If got $ I'd go for the Steyr Puch Haflinger or the full bodied Pinzgauer

Other than the very high expense of the portal axles, what are the cons of them?

I'd like to see an US made M151 type with portal axles..... something in the size range of the older TJ Wranger/CJ5, independent 4 wheel suspension, 4 wheel drive, and portal axles....maybe hardtop? Probably impossible to find in the US...

I used to do border patrol on the worst roads in those. They were quite capable without all the extra modern day mods. I'd happily take a stock one today.

 

[CamoDeafie]

They're at least more affordable than the Unimogs.... not by much though

Looking at the relatively small Pinzgauer axles.... I do wonder, how hard would it be for an US company to weld up a chassis that takes pinzgauer axles, mate to a 6.0L jeep engine and 5 speed manual with the usual H/L transfer cases... and put a Jeep TJ type body tub on the chassis? Probably going to be real expensive, hobby/race car expensive but would be awesome to see in RL.... OR a M151 retrofitted with the portal axles off a pinzgauer but thats still bloody expensive

I mean, sure it's not live/solid 1 ton axles..but for a small, lightweight vehicle, I don't think 1 tons are needed, unless its for extreme rock crawling? I could be WAY wrong...but a pinzguaer or even the haflinger would do me awesome for what I would do in the backcountry heck, even the M151 as is would...if I can get around the reputed govt interference (their claims that M151s were not safe to sell to civilians or use on public highways)

 

[CamoDeafie]

This is WHY I was asking... a Suzuki Jimney or Samurai...look at that lift.....and look how much clearance apparently the photo is from a 4x4 championship somewhere in Asia, and that guy was a winner at a few of them.... most likely because of the capabilities with the portals and relatively huge wheels

 

[Ura-Ki]

SUPER expensive, but SUPER awesome for ground clearance. I considdered a set for the '42 P-W, but instead parted out a H-1 Hummer for it's independent suspension ( with portal hubs) and aftermarket "A" arms to improve strength and clerence as well as increased steering! You can buy a running Hummer for under 5K!

 

[CamoDeafie]

You can buy a running Hummer for under 5K!

Um where... not in Oregon right? If you're speaking of military H1s and not the civilian "luxobarges"?

 

[Ura-Ki]

Mil. Surplus auctions, www.ironplanet.com is one such place. www.boyceequipement.com for parts and cool stuff ya never knew ya needed! That place is going do drive me broke with all the cool stuff I keep hauling home!

 

[CamoDeafie]

Hmmm I should look at the M151s... not sure how pricey they get... but I do know some M38s can be had for relatively low prices, and being Jeeps... they can take CJ parts easily... right? Hey theres an idea if I had a shop or at least access to one... either weld up a new, fully boxed ladder frame for a CJ3, and attach Toyota Land Defender axles with portals that can be found.. and then stick large-ish 16"×8 army truck wheels and tires on it... put a M38 tub on it, with the arctic hard top......
Or weld up attachments for the 4x4 pinzgauer suspension/drivetrain, maybe better? Again, if shop space, materials, and loads of cash

I don't think 1 ton+ axles and extremely wide spaced army tires look right on a small CJ3/M38 vehicle.. IMO. Probably a beast in rock crawling competitions though

 

[L84Cabo]

Interesting. I'm aware that Mercedes puts Portals on their Unimogs and some of their specialty rigs like their "G Wagon Squared"...and if you haven't seen that thing, it's a beast and pretty cool...

The G-Class Squared.

However, I was not aware that they were available as a bolt on kit. Aside from the cost of them, I'm not quite sure what the downside would be. Just thinking out loud here...You might be raising the center of gravity, without widening the wheelbase to compensate...which could be problematic. So a change in the COG and increasing the unsprung weight could make a very poor handling or uncomfortable rig.

I'm also not sure how the portals would change the stress put on the other various suspension components. You'd want to be careful that bolting them on to a system that wasn't originally designed for them wouldn't cause a catastrophic failure in the other parts of that systems somewhere.

 

[Ura-Ki]

You can find complete UNIMOG axle assemblies at the various Mil auction sites around the country, and they can also be found through heavy equipment dealers that Imported UNIMOGs under the CASE name plate!

 

[CamoDeafie]

Arent the unimog parts much bigger than the Pinzgauer parts?

 

[DirectDrive]

I would just throw down for one of these and be done with it.

 

[CamoDeafie]

@L84Cabo ; you dont mean widening the track of the wheels(left to right) as opposed to streching the wheelbase (fore and aft)? I think the bolt on portals increase the tracking width by quite a bit... which would require either a deeper backspaced wheel set, or maybe a change in some of the steering components to compensate for the increased track width?
Here is the site that sends them to the US customers;
Portal Wheel End | Suspensions & Modules | AxleTech

The other one is Tibus axles I think. I could be wrong on the name of the company.. but their prime customer base are Toyota, GM trucks, Jeep and Suzuki Jimney.

Edit; aw dang man, the Axletech units are very heavy!! 75 lbs added weight PER wheel

 

[Ura-Ki]

Arent the unimog parts much bigger than the Pinzgauer parts?

No, In fact, the UNIMOG is narrower then, It's actually Standard gauge Rail spec at the hub mounting flanges, part of the whole Universal Tractor concept that made them so darn useful and Highly Valuable!

 

[CamoDeafie]

Well dang. Those Unimog axles look the business.
Scrambler? Long wheel base Wrangler?

 

[edzz]

No, In fact, the UNIMOG is narrower then, It's actually Standard gauge Rail spec at the hub mounting flanges, part of the whole Universal Tractor concept that made them so darn useful and Highly Valuable!

Um, some Mog's be small some be big. Depends what model your talking about.