Why are we supporting Ukraine?

[AirgunAce]

I figure one word; "Crimea". If Ukraine can kick Russia out of the Black Sea, and put some USA bases right up to the Russian border, we'd have an advantage. For what exactly, I don't know.

But for Zelenskyy to act as if he deserves anything from us rubs me the wrong way. Ukraine is no where near ready for NATO. And to push for more arms just makes us weaker IMO.

We have many cities with homeless piling up on our doorsteps, yet spend billions for weapons of war.

BIden already gave it away we're short on ammo. Over 100 countries ban cluster-bombs for a reason.


I can't say I support the thugs from either side, but I get how Russia wouldn't care for a lack of a "buffer" between them and NATO. We did say we wouldn't push further East.

Yet I see we as a country have taken up to using the Ukrainian flag as a symbol of support. I can't help but think the media has pushed that agenda.


Kinda silly, like how folks put a yellow ribbon on their SUV and think they "support the troops." Nah, you support the Saudis and whatever Chinese company sold you that magnet.

Feels to me along the lines of; Would we battle to save Texas from joining Mexico? I'd be like, "adios" and take your weak-azz power grid with you.


So, pro or con, how do you feel about our involvement in what I figure is little more than a civil war.

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[arakboss]

I figure one word; "Crimea". If Ukraine can kick Russia out of the Black Sea, and put some USA bases right up to the Russian border, we'd have an advantage. For what exactly, I don't know.

But for Zelenskyy to act as if he deserves anything from us rubs me the wrong way. Ukraine is no where near ready for NATO. And to push for more arms just makes us weaker IMO.

We have many cities with homeless piling up on our doorsteps, yet spend billions for weapons of war.

BIden already gave it away we're short on ammo. Over 100 countries ban cluster-bombs for a reason.


I can't say I support the thugs from either side, but I get how Russia wouldn't care for a lack of a "buffer" between them and NATO. We did say we wouldn't push further East.

Yet I see we as a country have taken up to using the Ukrainian flag as a symbol of support. I can't help but think the media has pushed that agenda.


Kinda silly, like how folks put a yellow ribbon on their SUV and think they "support the troops." Nah, you support the Saudis and whatever Chinese company sold you that magnet.

Feels to me along the lines of; Would we battle to save Texas from joining Mexico? I'd be like, "adios" and take your weak-azz power grid with you.


So, pro or con, how do you feel about our involvement in what I figure is little more than a civil war.

Wait, you would be fine with giving up Texas to Mexico???

Edit: Maybe we should give up Alaska to the Russians.

 

[AirgunAce]

Wait, you would be fine with giving up Texas to Mexico???

Edit: Maybe we should give up Alaska to the Russians.

I wouldn't miss Texas in the least. But then again, I don't live there. That's up to the citizens who do.

I've not heard much of Alaska trying to secede, but Texas has it's fair share. Neither would join Russia I'm sure.

Still, would the other 49 States really risk civil-war over it if either decided to do secede?

Ukraine, like Taiwan, is really none of our business, except it's good for business. And a few well-placed USA bases.

Funny how no other Country has a base in our lands.


IMO, that's hardly a reason to sacrifice lives and resources we could use for better things to make our Country greater.

ONE F-16 is somewhere around the 60-million dollar mark. Imagine how many hungry people that could feed.

Oregon thinks 80-million is a good number. Conservative numbers say Ukraine is said to need at least a few dozen F16s to "win".

 

[arakboss]

We give away trillions already to those who don't take care of themselves. Maybe all the welfare recipients could move to Russia, China and Mexico and give us working folks a break from supporting them.

 

[AirgunAce]

We give away trillions already to those who don't take care of themselves. Maybe all the welfare recipients could move to Russia, China and Mexico and give us working folks a break from supporting them.

IMO, we gotta take care of our own. If you're too stingy to support those that really need help, perhaps your goals are different than mine. IMO, a healthy, educated people is part of the infrastructure that makes us better than other Countries. That's why I support free education and health benefits.

Every one of those homeless folks living in a tent COULD be a positive contribution to society, if only we make it possible.
Some very fine folks have overcome that burden.


Not to divide us, I'd rather sleep on the streets of the USA than be handed everything I need from any other Country. I'm glad I can live in a place where my alternative views don't land me in prison.


I highly doubt we spend "trillions" on supporting those less-advantaged than us. About half our budget goes to war machines, but a fraction of that goes to the Veterans who actually do the fighting.


A lot of our money is spent on old-farts collecting social-security and health benefits. Wait until you get too old or broken-down to work to appreciate that.

Still, far from the point. Why are we spending billions to support Ukraine when we have more than our own fair share of problems to solve?

 

[arakboss]

You have been misinformed if you believe half the budget goes towards defense spending. I believe a person should work for what they get. Other countries offer "free" healthcare and education. I suggest the freeloaders move to one of those countries.

 

[TTSX]

You have been misinformed if you believe half the budget goes towards defense spending. I believe a person should work for what they get. Other countries offer "free" healthcare and education. I suggest the freeloaders move to one of those countries.

Quick figures I found suggest a total budget of 6.5T for the country and a 2.1T budget specifically for DOD which amounts to just under 1/3 of total US spending. So not half, but not too far off the mark, either...

 

[arakboss]

Quick figures I found suggest a total budget of 6.5T for the country and a 2.1T budget specifically for DOD which amounts to just under 1/3 of total US spending. So not half, but not too far off the mark, either...

Defense spending is one of the few things the Feds should worry about spending money on. The social security ponzi scheme, welfare spending, education, etc should not be.

If our support for the Ukrainians is truly depleting all of our weapons and jeopardizing our preparedness level then we should be spending more on defense. If we can't keep up with support of a non local skirmish how are we going to support our own efforts in a full blown war.

The pie charts I have seen Indicate we are spending much more on social programs (social security, Medicare, education snap, etc) then we are on defense spending.

 

[TTSX]

USAspending.gov

www.usaspending.gov

According to this .gov website, military spending is about 15% of total spending. Dunno what that info is worth or if we trust .gov info. All the same, that's what I dug up 15% is a crap ton less than 50% or 33% soooo idk man. Is what it is.

 

[arakboss]

USAspending.gov

www.usaspending.gov

According to this .gov website, military spending is about 15% of total spending. Dunno what that info is worth or if we trust .gov info. All the same, that's what I dug up 15% is a crap ton less than 50% or 33% soooo idk man. Is what it is.

Most of the pie charts including the one I provided above lump DOD spending and Homeland security spending together. The actual DOD spending hasn't hit one trillion yet, as far as I know.

The invasion of Ukraine by Russia is helpful for us to study Russia's war tactics, weaken Russia, strengthen support for NATO, test new weapons, strategies etc, get a better idea of who supports Russia over us, increase defence companies shareholder values and on and on and on. All of this is being accomplished while putting our own troops at minimal risk. IMHO it's a much better cause than occupation of Afghanistan and we spent trillions there.

 

[arakboss]

I would much rather suffer the effects of inflation in order to support countrymen risking their lives to fight Russian invaders vs buying more bon bons for the POS that wants to sit on the couch and watch The View or providing free needles and Narcan to junkies.

 

[arakboss]

Russian fanboys don't worry because after the next President takes over. the Russian invasion will be over in 24hrs. Then you can hang your posters back up.

 

[DunRanull]

The fact that negotiations are steadfastly REFUSED by US/Ukie politicians says a lot to me. The Russians are not totally in the wrong here and the Ukies are not totally in the right. The involvement of the US in yet another country's CIVIL WAR is bad policy IMO. Now Biden has called up reservists to send to Europa. Mark my words, it won't stop there. We are prosecuting a proxy war on the Russian Federation and the Russians are quite aware of this. Putin isn't the hated dictator our media makes him out to be.. he has a lot of support in Russia, a country used to more authoritarian rule than we would like- Putin came to power when Russia was a mess politically, socially, and economically. Old folks and vets were starving in the streets and crime was high. Putin's government has done much to fix those problems, and the people know this and fear a return to those days.
Russia as a sovereign state, is not about to allow NATO take another step in their direction. After our promises not to expand NATO to the east, we have done just that by welcoming 14 former east bloc or soviet republics into full NATO membership. For several reasons historical, strategic, and racial, Russia will not allow Ukraine to be the 15th, not without a fight.
This is the same incremental involvement policy that got us into Vietnam. Biden is intent on getting us into a big war unless we as citizens unite to stop him. The countries of Europa arent gung-ho about this state of affairs... you'll notice that they arent stepping up to support this effort, except for Poland, which has it's own historical dogs in the fight, going back 600 years when they ruled Ukraine and think they still should...

 

[rhollister71]

The fact that negotiations are steadfastly REFUSED by US/Ukie politicians says a lot to me. The Russians are not totally in the wrong here and the Ukies are not totally in the right. The involvement of the US in yet another country's CIVIL WAR is bad policy IMO. Now Biden has called up reservists to send to Europa. Mark my words, it won't stop there. We are prosecuting a proxy war on the Russian Federation and the Russians are quite aware of this. Putin isn't the hated dictator our media makes him out to be.. he has a lot of support in Russia, a country used to more authoritarian rule than we would like- Putin came to power when Russia was a mess politically, socially, and economically. Old folks and vets were starving in the streets and crime was high. Putin's government has done much to fix those problems, and the people know this and fear a return to those days.
Russia as a sovereign state, is not about to allow NATO take another step in their direction. After our promises not to expand NATO to the east, we have done just that by welcoming 14 former east bloc or soviet republics into full NATO membership. For several reasons historical, strategic, and racial, Russia will not allow Ukraine to be the 15th, not without a fight.
This is the same incremental involvement policy that got us into Vietnam. Biden is intent on getting us into a big war unless we as citizens unite to stop him. The countries of Europa arent gung-ho about this state of affairs... you'll notice that they arent stepping up to support this effort, except for Poland, which has it's own historical dogs in the fight, going back 600 years when they ruled Ukraine and think they still should...

Finally someone besides me is at least educated on this Russia/Ukie problem. We gotta remember Ukraine is the cyber criminal capitol of the world, as well as one of the most corrupt countries in the world and they are in essence robbing the US Blind! Either refusing or just not giving reports that we have asked for on spending the "Aid" we send? Hence NATO still says they have great strides to make before consideration of membership.

We agreed to not encroach on Russias border, yet here we are on almost every front of there border w 1 country left in between? We broke the rules of the treaty technically, and they (Russia) said enough is enough.

Anyone remember Cuba? just a missile or 2 in a country too close for our comfort and we threatened Nuclear WW3? Russia has the entire NATO coalition at there front door, and we are surprised they Attack? If it were us we would do the same thing? I am no Russia supporter or Ukraine, but feel we should politely bow out of this one. Take care of our Nation, get off china's Teet, regain our own energy independence and manufacturing. We dont need to be Step parents for every counrty in need....

 

[monkeybutler]

Zerohedge and similar sure are effective. You would hope people would have better sense than that, but… nah….

 

[Gunbuggy]

Because the bidens and a lot of other people in their circle have a ton of money tied up in Ukraine and hunter biden has been getting crazy payments from them.

 

[Longwalkhome]

 

[ilostmypswrd]

We are supporting the Ukes because all the talking heads in DC are from the cold war era, and those chowderheads still think they are the mighty CCCP, when in fact I use to live and work there, and those Russian morons could not even fix my friggen hot water heater right, ( go figure).What is even worse after 20 pluse years of none stop GWOT, we are spent out, we should be getting are butts ready for the big rumble with the chicomms, but oh no out potato N chief still thinks the mighty bear is going to invade NATO, give me a break.

 

[DunRanull]

Wait, you would be fine with giving up Texas to Mexico???

Edit: Maybe we should give up Alaska to the Russians.

Maybe we should give californicate to the red chinese. Or better yet, auction it off to the highest bidder before the place drops into the Pacific.

 

[Provincial]

Maybe we should give californicate to the red chinese. Or better yet, auction it off to the highest bidder before the place drops into the Pacific.

Only if the buyer assumes California's share of the National Debt, which is considerable!