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Police confiscate guns from Americans Part 2

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Father of four, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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  2. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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  3. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/alt.conspiracy/1-HRThqMJm8


    What Would America's Founders Say?

    The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so
    let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so
    the second will not become the legalized version of the first.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not.
    --Thomas Jefferson

    It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate,
    tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the
    minds of men.
    --Samuel Adams

    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to
    keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
    against tyranny in government.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but
    they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a
    status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them,
    which would include their own government."
    -- George Washington

    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and
    silent we may be led, like sheep, to the slaughter.
    -- George Washington

    When governments fear the people there is liberty.
    When the people fear the government there is tyranny.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a
    standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed
    populace.
    -- James Madison

    If the representatives of the people betray their constituents,
    there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that
    original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive
    forms of government ... The citizens must rush tumultuously to
    arms, without concert, without system, without resource;
    except in their courage and despair ...
    The natural strength of the people in a large community, in
    proportion to the artificial strength of the government, is greater
    than in a small ... the people, without exaggeration, may be said
    to be entirely the masters of their own fate.
    -- Alexander Hamilton

    We in America do not have government by the majority.
    We have government by the majority who participate.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good
    conscience to remain silent.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of
    the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe
    depositories.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    As our enemies have found we can reason like men, so now
    let us show them we can fight like men also.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will
    delineate and define you.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on
    does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which
    they draw their gains.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied
    corporations which dare already to challenge our government to
    a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
    liberties than standing armies.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government
    those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations,
    perverted it into tyranny.
    -- Thomas Jefferson
     
  4. Grunwald

    Grunwald Out of that nut job colony of Seattle, WA Well-Known Member

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    First line of protection is your door. Do not open it. Hell, do not answer it.
    Second line of protection against illegal attempt to seize my firearms by law enforcement is the safe. They are not getting me to open it and they would not be able to get it out of the house without a major effort and equipment which they do not have with them.
    .. But it starts with keeping the door closed.
     
  5. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them. And yet, thought this truth would seem so clear, and the importance of a well regulated militia would seem so undeniable, it cannot be disguised, that among the American people there is a growing indifference to any system of militia discipline, and a strong disposition, from a sense of its burthens, to be rid of all regulations. How is it practicable to keep the people duly armed without some organization, it is difficult to see. There is certainly no small danger, that indifference may lead to disgust, and disgust to contempt; and thus gradually undermine all the protection intended by this clause of our national bill of rights.

    Justice Joseph Storey, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, vol. 3 at pp. 746-747
    found at Justice Joseph Story on the Second Amendment
     
  6. Scott

    Scott Battle Ground Well-Known Member

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    All this means nothing to a WH who does not believe in the constitution much less any people's rights, hopes, or dreams.

    Where are all the people who love Obama and promised he would not do anything a couple years ago? Mostly that batman penguin and CEF?

    Have not heard much from them. Hmmmm

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2
     
  7. eganx

    eganx Kingston WA Active Member

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    And all that happened under Bush.......
     
  8. BSG 75

    BSG 75 Oregon Well-Known Member

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  9. Grunwald

    Grunwald Out of that nut job colony of Seattle, WA Well-Known Member

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    It did happen under Bush (hurricane Katrina).
    Most of it was being done by local law enforcement so Feds cannot be blamed for it.
    However I do seem to recall stories of boats with armed uniforms doing the same thing to those people who were trying to get out of the area by boat. I just cannot recall if those boats were operated by Coast Guard or local LEOs.
    If it was Coast Guard then federal authorities also crossed the line.
     
  10. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Criticism of government response to Hurricane Katrina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Confiscation of civilian firearms

    Controversy arose over a September 8 city-wide order by New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass to local police, U.S. Army National Guard soldiers, and Deputy U.S. Marshals to confiscate all civilian-held firearms. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns." Seizures were carried out without warrant, and in some cases with excessive force; one instance captured on film involved 58 year old New Orleans resident Patricia Konie. Konie stayed behind, in her well provisioned home, and had an old revolver for protection. A group of police entered the house, and when she refused to surrender her revolver, she was tackled and it was removed by force. Konie's shoulder was fractured, and she was taken into police custody for failing to surrender her firearm.[81][82]

    Angered citizens, backed by the National Rifle Association and other organizations, filed protests over the constitutionality of such an order and the difficulty in tracking seizures, as paperwork was rarely filed during the searches. Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the National Rifle Association, defended the right of affected citizens to retain firearms, saying that, "What we’ve seen in Louisiana - the breakdown of law and order in the aftermath of disaster - is exactly the kind of situation where the Second Amendment was intended to allow citizens to protect themselves." The searches received little news coverage, though reaction from groups such as the NRA, the Second Amendment Foundation, and Gun Owners of America was immediate and heated, and a lawsuit was filed September 22 by the NRA and SAF on behalf of two firearm owners whose firearms were seized. On September 23, the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana issued a restraining order to bar further firearms confiscations.[81]

    After refusing to admit that it had any seized firearms, the city revealed in mid-March that it did have a cache of some 1000 firearms seized after the hurricane; this disclosure came after the NRA filed a motion in court to hold the city in contempt for failure to comply with the U.S. District Court's earlier order to return all seized firearms. On April 14, 2006, it was announced that the city will begin to return seized firearms, however as of early 2008, many firearms were still in police possession, and the matter was still in court.[81] The matter was finally settled in favor of the NRA in October 2008. Per the agreement, the city was required to relax the strict proof of ownership requirements previously used, and was to release firearms to their owners with an affidavit claiming ownership and a background check to verify that the owner is legally able to possess a firearm.[83]

    Louisiana legislator Steve Scalise introduced Louisiana House Bill 760, which would prohibit confiscation of firearms in a state of emergency, unless the seizure is pursuant to the investigation of a crime, or if the seizure is necessary to prevent immediate harm to the officer or another individual. On June 8, 2006, HB 760 was signed into law.[84] 21 other states joined Louisiana in enacting similar laws. A federal law prohibiting seizure of lawfully held firearms during an emergency, the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006, passed in the House with a vote of 322 to 99, and in the Senate by 84-16. The bill was signed into law by President Bush on October 9, 2006.[85]
     
  11. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    And by that time the firearms had rusted until most were useless even if they could be returned. Pictures were in my NRA mag some time ago. The firearms were stored in covered but leaking, utility trailers.
     
  12. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It was a shame all the way around. Shame on the local authority down there.
     
  13. Grunwald

    Grunwald Out of that nut job colony of Seattle, WA Well-Known Member

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    I have an issue with the story in post #10. The local police superintendent has no authority over the US Marshal Service, so he could not issue them an order to do anything.
     
  14. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin might have had something to do with that, I don't know.
     
  15. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Former N.O. Mayor Nagin indicted on corruption charges - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com

    "Anti-gun former New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, who presided over the illegal confiscation of hundreds of firearms in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina that brought legal action from the Bellevue-based Second Amendment Foundation, has been indicted on 21 federal charges of corruption."

    "The lawsuit by SAF and NRA was marked by delays and denials that firearms had been confiscated by New Orleans police and visiting police from other agencies, along with National Guard troops who were all brought in to help restore order."

    More...

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/18/new-orleans-mayor-ray-nagin/1845617/
     
  16. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Here is another read....Defenseless on the Bayou - New Orleans gun confiscation was foolish and illegal.

    "Defenseless on the Bayou

    New Orleans gun confiscation was foolish and illegal.

    Dave Kopel

    During the weeks after Hurricane Katrina, the government of New Orleans devolved from its traditional status as an elective kleptocracy into something far more dangerous: an “anarcho-tyranny” that refused to protect the public from criminals while preventing people from protecting themselves. On the orders of New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, the New Orleans Police Department, the National Guard, the Oklahoma National Guard, and the U.S. Marshals Service began breaking into homes at gunpoint, confiscating lawfully owned firearms, and evicting the residents. “No one is allowed to be armed,” said P. Edwin Compass III, the superintendent of police. “We’re going to take all the guns.”

    ......

    After Katrina struck, we saw an awful truth in New Orleans: There is no shortage of police officers and National Guardsmen who will illegally threaten peaceful citizens at gunpoint and confiscate their firearms. We also saw some noble truths: that citizens with firearms will defend law and order even when the government fails. And that our federal courts, as well as civil rights organizations such as NRA and SAF, continue to play an important role in defending constitutional rights against the depredations of lawless “law enforcement” officers.



    New York next?
     
  17. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they went willingly?
     
  18. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    What happens next time?
    Do we stand together, or do we hide in our homes and wait to be busted-in on, one at a time?
    Or do we meet up in the neighborhood - our neighborhood - and tell the roving bands, "Thanks, we're fine."

    Marbury v. Madison held that an unconstitutional law is void - meaning that you don't have to wait for the Supremes to rule on it a couple years down the line. It doesn't exist, and anybody who tries to enforce it is committing a crime - in uniform or not.

    Marbury v. Madison
     
  19. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    First line of defense is to organize with 4 to 6 or more of your good friends for a squad to counterattack the goons (I mean squad maneuver tactics) when they come a knockin

    Think on that, my friends
     
  20. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Hope you dumped her on the curb as you exited