National Pistol Brace rule Dropped!

[SCARed]

What guns does 922 affect or not affect?

Part of the problem is there is a financial incentive for the YouTube hype guys to hype problems. The problems may be real or not, big problems or small. But every problem is made to look like it's the end of the world.

The reason is because it makes them money to sensationalize or create drama.

Somehow we need info that is only facts, not hype. That's hard to find.

Any imported rifle.

 

[Member 53328]

I'm just pointing out the reality of the situation. Claiming, "no one is forcing you." Is very inaccurate.

Do you have a gun to your head saying you have to file for a tax stamp for the braces pistol you own….. I'm guessing not. You have OPTIONS. You just don't like them.

Option 1 - continue life with your braced "pistol" and run the possibility of federal prosecution.

Option 2 - simply remove the brace and keep it as a pistol.

Option 3 - file for a free tax stamp and keep the brace or better yet swap it out for a stock.

We all knew this day would come. Some prepared and were ready/not surprised, while others trusted the same government that they complain about be corrupted and untrustworthy, to not backtrack on their "empty promise."

 

[wired]

I think the ATF is trying to say, those "pistols" weren't really pistols, they were rifles (SBR), therefor they shouldn't have been legally allowed to be imported. So they need to be destroyed.

I've also heared, thats whey they haven't published the final rules, because they realized they f'ed up.

perhaps they shouldn't have allowed them to be imported then. Little things

 

[American123]

Do you have a gun to your head saying you have to file for a tax stamp for the braces pistol you own….. I'm guessing not. You have OPTIONS. You just don't like them.

Option 1 - continue life with your braced "pistol" and run the possibility of federal prosecution.

Option 2 - simply remove the brace and keep it as a pistol.

Option 3 - file for a free tax stamp and keep the brace or better yet swap it out for a stock.

We all knew this day would come. Some prepared and were ready/not surprised, while others trusted the same government that they complain about be corrupted and untrustworthy, to not backtrack on their "empty promise."

You're getting off track and missing the point.

Being forced to choose between 3 options instead of exist as a felon is still being forced. That's the point.

Earlier you claimed no one is forcing you and now you're presenting effectively the same failed argument to support the first claim.

Consider this: No one is forcing you with a gun to your head to pay your federal income tax or County property taxes either, and yet, at the end of that road of "options" if you don't do what they say, men with guns will still ultimately be involved to take you away to jail, or if you don't comply with that option, kill you.

The State (not Washington, but the government entity) has a monopoly on violence.

 

[SCARed]

perhaps they shouldn't have allowed them to be imported then. Little things

But they were allowed cause they were pistols back then. Atf is finally tripping over they're own toes since they've flip flopped so much.
Really seems like there would be additional basis to end the ATF as they can't seem to even mange themselves.

 

[Member 53328]

You're getting off track and missing the point.

Being forced to choose between 3 options instead of exist as a felon is still being forced. That's the point.

Earlier you claimed no one is forcing you and now you're presenting effectively the same failed argument to support the first claim.

Consider this: No one is forcing you with a gun to your head to pay your federal income tax or County property taxes either, and yet, at the end of that road of "options" if you don't do what they say, men with guns will still ultimately be involved to take you away to jail, or if you don't comply with that option, kill you.

The State (not Washington, but the government entity) has a monopoly on violence.

Then with your thought process the American people don't have free choice/free will at all. We are being forced to follow and live in the confines of every law put in place. Old and new. Whether it be traffic codes, tax laws, criminal laws, civil laws, etc.

We are being forced to live the life we live in America through your eyes. I understand what you're saying. It's simply not my outlook on life. I don't live in a world of doom and gloom. Which is exactly how the government wants you to live.

I believe I have free choice. But some choices I make may be followed with consequences. You're not gunna find a more "free" place to live than America.

Operational risk management.

 

[wired]

But they were allowed cause they were pistols back then. Atf is finally tripping over they're own toes since they've flip flopped so much.
Really seems like there would be additional basis to end the ATF as they can't seem to even mange themselves.

Theyre still pistols. They aren't braced prior to import and an unbraced pistol isn't violating import restrictions.

 

[The Heretic]

 

[Member 53328]

View attachment 1350865

Ah yes. Cause when you remove the brace the AR pistol just quits working…..

SMH.

 

[Howard1955]

Man, these are weird times.

 

[saxon]

ATF " yes it is designed to be a brace and it is not a stock."
ATF " yes even putting it to your shoulder from time to time is not making it a re-designed stock, it is still a brace."
ATF "yes just about any brace is now a stock and you are in violation of the law."
me " hmmmm should i take the potential bait? or do i just spend the $200 to SBR the ones i really want and remove the brace?"
Reality " the brace was a SBR workaround you know it they know it ATF finally reutilized it, so
remove the brace till all the krap settles.
leave the brace on till all of the krap settles.
get your "free" stamp and all the potential trap that it might or might not be.

remember the Atkins accelerator? first not a MG then because of a spring ATF said it was an MG
flip flop

9th circuit court after the ban, yes an individual can still make an MG for them self's as long as it does not effect interstate commerce,
get's all the way to SCOTUS, SCOTUS says "sure sounds great except a few things let's send it back to the 9th,
9th no you can not make an MG any more period.
flip flop

9th mag ban is un constitutional, 9th few months latter, Mag ban is perfectly ok.
flip flop

and on and on

 

[arrowshooter]

As mentioned above this thing has not been published and there is a reason for that. I mentioned here earlier, the ATF may have just dropped this s*** to see what can stick then amend it.

For instance, as it is written right now there is no indication as to exactly what is legal when you simply remove the brace, and this may not be an over sight. Who knows at this point. For me, braces and tubes are off and I already have plans to put 16" or 18" barrels on the higher end uppers. This is just me though.

 

[Member 53328]

ATF " yes it is designed to be a brace and it is not a stock."
ATF " yes even putting it to your shoulder from time to time is not making it a re-designed stock, it is still a brace."
ATF "yes just about any brace is now a stock and you are in violation of the law."
me " hmmmm should i take the potential bait? or do i just spend the $200 to SBR the ones i really want and remove the brace?"
Reality " the brace was a SBR workaround you know it they know it ATF finally reutilized it, so
remove the brace till all the krap settles.
leave the brace on till all of the krap settles.
get your "free" stamp and all the potential trap that it might or might not be.

remember the Atkins accelerator? first not a MG then because of a spring ATF said it was an MG
flip flop

9th circuit court after the ban, yes an individual can still make an MG for them self's as long as it does not effect interstate commerce,
get's all the way to SCOTUS, SCOTUS says "sure sounds great except a few things let's send it back to the 9th,
9th no you can not make an MG any more period.
flip flop

9th mag ban is un constitutional, 9th few months latter, Mag ban is perfectly ok.
flip flop

and on and on

Exactly. Don't put faith in the wishy washy government and it's agencies.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Man, these are weird times.

Good info thx! That guy definitely doesn't sound like he is giving out info for the purpose of hype/attracting clicks. Good to hear about atf employee perspective.

 

[CamoDeafie]

If the ATF truly messed this one up and it's why they haven't published it in the Federal Register; they could have simply shut down the tax-exempt Final Rule registry system and then deleted the eform icon for that and leave only the usual icons... as for those who are already progressing/submitted; they could continue and get them done as understood; still tax-exempt, no enforcement action...

 

[Gbirk]

My understanding that any guns added to a trust before the rule is published in the federal register are eligible for "free SBR". I'd encourage everyone to move the guns you *may* want to register as SBR to a trust now before it gets published.

I'd also encourage everyone to not do a damn thing for quite a while after the rule is published. Unless you somehow wanted an SBR before this mess, in which case enjoy your free SBR. Personally, I'll be waiting until I have no more time left and the lawsuits have been resolved. Likely this will be tied up in the court system for years though.

Washington Gun Law just did a video on this. The sort of it is that you can't transfer your non NFA guns to a trust because the 4473 does not have an option for "trust" as the owner. You can not transfer a firearm leagally to another owner without a 4473 in Oregon, and since the 4473 does not have an option for "trust" the trust can now "own" them.

Seems like it does not matter when you "transferred" the gun to your Trust, it it is not an NFA item the trust in not capable of owning it.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

So re the end of the world stuff, let me see if I understand:

#1 issue is the crazy 88 days which seems like it's the end of the world but actually is just some procedural deal that won't affect anything.

#2 is the 922r issue which apparently is real and will screw up everything and atf is witholding publishing the rule in the Fed register due to this?

Is that where we stand at the moment (note, I'm purposely ignoring all other issues, major and minor, for this post)?

 

[American123]

Then with your thought process the American people don't have free choice/free will at all. We are being forced to follow and live in the confines of every law put in place. Old and new. Whether it be traffic codes, tax laws, criminal laws, civil laws, etc.

We are being forced to live the life we live in America through your eyes. I understand what you're saying. It's simply not my outlook on life. I don't live in a world of doom and gloom. Which is exactly how the government wants you to live.

I believe I have free choice. But some choices I make may be followed with consequences. You're not gunna find a more "free" place to live than America.

Operational risk management.

It's simply a matter of whether you choose to accept what constitutes force or not. Your perception is irrelevant to the reality of it.

If a bully says you can pick between these 3 choices: 1) "give me $10 2) give me your ice cream 3) stand on your head for 3 minutes, or else.

That's a situation that involves force, despite it having "options."

Regarding laws - yes, laws operate that way. It is decreed how someone must comport themselves with an "or else" attached to it. The "or else" is the forceful component.

It really isn't that complicated of a concept. Let's rewind the clock just a year ago. "Put on a mask or don't get groceries from this grocery store." "Don't operate your business or lose your business license."

My point is simply that having options does not mean you still aren't being forced.

 

[wired]

So re the end of the world stuff, let me see if I understand:

#1 issue is the crazy 88 days which seems like it's the end of the world but actually is just some procedural deal that won't affect anything.

#2 is the 922r issue which apparently is real and will screw up everything and atf is witholding publishing the rule in the Fed register due to this?

Is that where we stand at the moment (note, I'm purposely ignoring all other issues, major and minor, for this post)?

Yeah,

1. is a big nothing.
2. Isnt a big nothing. It could be a big something.

I dont know if 2 is why theyre withholding publication but theyre not going to get any people beating down their door to comply with their rule if they think a stick is better than a carrot.

 

[Member 53328]

It's simply a matter of whether you choose to accept what constitutes force or not. Your perception is irrelevant to the reality of it.

If a bully says you can pick between these 3 choices: 1) "give me $10 2) give me your ice cream 3) stand on your head for 3 minutes, or else.

That's a situation that involves force, despite it having "options."

Regarding laws - yes, laws operate that way. It is decreed how someone must comport themselves with an "or else" attached to it. The "or else" is the forceful component.

It really isn't that complicated of a concept. Let's rewind the clock just a year ago. "Put on a mask or don't get groceries from this grocery store." "Don't operate your business or lose your business license."

My point is simply that having options does not mean you still aren't being forced.

You can look at life through whatever lens you choose.

If you speed you can get arrested.
If you steal you can get arrested.
If you murder you can get arrested.
If you don't pay taxes you can get arrested.
If you don't follow NFA rules you can get arrested.
If you buy and sell narcotics you can get arrested.
If you sell guns privately you can get arrested.
If you conceal carry without a license you can get arrested.
If you carry with standard mags in certain states you can get arrested.
If you carry a fixed blade you can get arrested.


I could go on and on. It's up to you whether you follow the laws. And laws with continue to change and slide on a spectrum. Whether you agree with them or not. At the end of the day it's your CHOICE which means you have OPTIONS whether you like/agree with those options or not. You still have a choice to choose whatever direction you want to go.

Yea I guess in a way you are "forced" to make a choice. Even sitting by idly and doing nothing is a choice. Life is full of choices. With choices come benefits and consequences.

Life isn't fair. And facts really don't care about your feelings or outlook.

I won't judge you on how you live your life. Do whatever you feel is right. But when the ATF comes knocking (unlikely) don't be surprised.

Personally I will admit that there are laws I refuse to follow. And I have already come to terms that if those laws are enacted I am ok with owning the consequences of my choices (that I make freely).