National Pistol Brace rule Dropped!

[wired]

What good are Federal and SCOTUS court decisions if DOJ agencies and citizens are just gonna ignore them and do what they want to do anyhow?

The ATF hasn't changed their tune on bumpstocks at all. FRT triggers never were illegal yet the ATF calls them machine guns and continue to confiscate them whenever they pop up for sale with no one getting prosecuted.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

The ATF hasn't changed their tune on bumpstocks at all. FRT triggers never were illegal yet the ATF calls them machine guns and continue to confiscate them whenever they pop up for sale with no one getting prosecuted.

 

[Yarome]

I guess I also find that trying to draw parallels between what happened over 50 years ago in the 1968 amnesty is a fools argument. 50 years of "progress"... the political climate that existed then bears very little resemblance to what exists today.

 

[wired]

I guess I also find that trying to draw parallels between what happened over 50 years ago in the 1968 amnesty is a fools argument. 50 years of "progress"... the political climate that existed then bears very little resemblance to what exists today.

Id call the government MORE liberal in 1968 and more power hungry. Even Nixon was a flaming liberal and he was a Republican. A lot of letter agencies were created under Nixon. LBJ was the personification of a socialist. The FBI was still a major tool of oppression.

 

[wired]

View attachment 1349844

Their Trump position that is despite what one district court has said

 

[bradsteen]

Still trying to figure out what prompts people to think theyre going to get prosecuted for following instructions

We followed the ATF's instructions before. They said a type of product was OK, so millions of Americans spent their hard-earned money only to be told we are criminals if we don't destroy that product (without compensation), turn it in to the ATF (without compensation), or register it (submitting evidence of our "crime" to the agency that could prosecute us if they so choose, and afterwards have to report to that agency if we leave our home state with that weapon). And depending on which state we live in now we may potentially lose the firearm anyway because of the ATF's sudden change in classification for that weapon.

So we have infringement of our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms through the reclassification of weapons that are in common use by millions of Americans, violation of our 5th amendment rights against self incrimination and seizure of property without due compensation, and a government agency who has grossly overstepped their remit, userped the authority of Congress to make laws, and whose constant waffling and playing with the rules directly puts millions of Americans in legal jeopardy to the tune of 10 years in jail, a $250,000 fine, and loss of their gun rights forever. And with them now going door-to-door to collect OTHER items they suddenly reclassified, it shouldn't come as a shock when people start to voice their objections and concerns.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Would it be any less acrimonious if the DOJ published a simple, 1 page final rule that said in essence; "all AR and AK based firearms are variants and derivative designs of rifles therefore they all fall under Rifle category and may be SBR or SBS depending on these following subjective design features but are all created from rifle receivers"....
?


Edit I mean, it would be simple, unambiguous and account for 100% of the AR and AK type firearms on the market....

 

[Howard1955]

We live in an insane asylum. I reckon if a person doesn't have at least some 'trust issues' they're not paying attention.

How degraded and bass-ackwards are we going to get?

 

[Flopsweat]

Would it be any less acrimonious if the DOJ published a simple, 1 page final rule that said in essence; "all AR and AK based firearms are variants and derivative designs of rifles therefore they all fall under Rifle category and may be SBRs or SBS or AOWs depending on these following subjective design features but are all created from rifle receivers"....
?

It would be less complicated, but no less an infringement.

 

[CamoDeafie]

It would be less complicated, but no less an infringement.

Right but that's the entire point anyhow, and could make it easier for SCOTUS to strike down NFA in its entirety and all laws &regs pertaining to NFA firearms

 

[Flopsweat]

Right but that's the entire point anyhow, and could make it easier for SCOTUS to strike down NFA in its entirety and all laws &regs pertaining to NFA firearms

Then I would expect ATF wouldn't do that.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Instead of like DOJ is trying to argue that...


Some ARs are dangerous and unusual if they meet their subjective criteria outside the NFA terms

Some ARs are perfectly fine

Some ARs are legally fine as pistols as long as they meet their expanded subjective criteria

Some ARs are limited to SOT/LE/Military only


But ARs at the most simplest, distilled design are commonly owned for lawful uses and therefore are protected under 2A

 

[CamoDeafie]

Then I would expect ATF wouldn't do that.

That's also assuming the ATF would follow SCOTUS and Fed Court decisions

 

[Flopsweat]

That's also assuming the ATF would follow SCOTUS and Fed Court decisions

Not what I meant. I meant that they would not publish the one-page rule you suggested:

Would it be any less acrimonious if the DOJ published a simple, 1 page final rule that said in essence; "all AR and AK based firearms are variants and derivative designs of rifles therefore they all fall under Rifle category and may be SBR or SBS depending on these following subjective design features but are all created from rifle receivers"....
?


Edit I mean, it would be simple, unambiguous and account for 100% of the AR and AK type firearms on the market....

 

[CamoDeafie]

You know what.

If SAF lawsuit and District Court judges resolve and say "yeah, no. The Final Rule is invalid, pistol braces are not stocks; people who own them can still do what they want, Congress should remove SBRs from NFA but that's up to Congress; and the 120 period with tax exemption for pistol braced firearms can proceed as they are not SBRs until they receive the stamp allowing them to install a proper shoulder stock on their firearms if desired".....the DOJ would definitely appeal up to SCOTUS and things will get interesting. In the meantime.... do what you feel is right and support the SAF efforts with their lawsuits.

 

[CountryGent]

Even Nixon was a flaming liberal and he was a Republican.

Indeed. Tricky Dicky privately supported a total ban on handguns and publicly supported a ban on "Saturday Night Specials". On the former, stating in a recorded conversation, "I don't know why any individual should have a right to have a revolver in his house" adding " ... people should not have handguns."

 

[Flopsweat]

Any updated recommendations for a plain old pistol buffer tube, or are they pretty much all the same quality? Just want to have one on hand for day 119 if it comes to that. I won't be registering my pistol.

This one is solid:

AR-15 PISTOL BUFFER TUBE | Brownells

AR-15 Pistol Buffer Tube ready to install on your AR-15 pistol build. Extruded from 6061 -T6 aluminum & finished with a matte black hard coat anodizing. Accepts common braces & fits standard AR-15 lower receivers.

www.brownells.com

This one is only $20 and it's made by KAK Industries.

KAK SIMPLE PISTOL BUFFER TUBE

KAK SIMPLE PISTOL BUFFER TUBE Features: Uses standard AR15 style carbine end plates and castle nuts Accepts all standard carbine buffers and buffer springs 4.55 oz 7.25" Overall Length 1.25" Outer Diameter All NFA/ATF laws and rulings apply to this component. It is the responsiblity of the...

www.kakindustry.com

I've been very happy with the three or so different products of theirs that I've bought, including a different model buffer tube.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I also see a variety of short to real short buffer tubes and kits for them ranging from $30 to 130 depending on brand. Shortest would be the few Bufferless systems that are also quite pricy but those would turn your AR into an actual pistol that has no surface area for shouldering, and not enough length of pull, as well as being only able to have sling swivels studs in the area... however adding a vertical grip to that would make it an AOW due to the ATF determination that 2 vert grips on a pistol of any type (without stabilizing brace mind you); into an AOW.


Anyways. Here are a few possibilities with regards to the SAF lawsuit.

1. Injunction/enjoin of enforcement, registry still open for tax-exempt

2. Injunction/enjoin of enforcement, registry closed and records ordered destroyed; status of filed Form 1s to be basically taken back to step 1, requires $200 tax stamp for ordinary making of SBR without pistol brace (business as usual prior to final rule)

3. Dismiss of suit in favor of DOJ, no injunction/enjoin, final rule in place (definitely would get appealed)



4. Summary judgement in favor of SAF; closure of registry, recommendation to Congress to remove SBR from NFA language, but keep rest of NFA-appeal very likely from DOJ

5. Summary judgment in favor of SAF; strike down of entire NFA laws and related laws, ATF told to buzz off. (Not likely?) Appeal must happen from DOJ over being smacked.

6. Summary judgement in favor of DOJ; expands NFA and keep final rule (maybe least likely after Cargill?) -SAF would appeal

Any way it goes, expect appeals and counterappeal to go up to SCOTUS and then whenever that happens....

 

[arrowshooter]

I've been very happy with the three or so different products of theirs that I've bought, including a different model buffer tube.

I second that for KAK. Good stuff, good prices and pretty darn good service is today's atmosphere.

 

[Sundance]

Good video from Guns and Gadgets with GOA attorney Steven Sambolia (probably butchered his last name, sorry) talking about the ATF pistol brave registration.

My summary: ATF is giving 120 'Grace' period for registration. NFA application is automatically rejected after 88 days, at which time you are a felon in possession of a NFA item. ATF has a picture of your gun, your finger prints and address. Day 89 they press charges and make you a felon, confiscate all your guns and make it illegal to own guns in the future - they've now taken guns away from millions of Americans.

If the guberment says it free - BEWARE!!!!!