Poll: oversized bullet...

[Local Loader]

saami is all I know of to look for, im not certain if this dimension is for the case neck ID or the bullet OD?
I guess looking closer at this the dimension is for the bullet since it needs to be press fit into the neck.

View attachment 1362224

Looks like it's saying that .2245 is the max diameter allowed. So yeah I'd say that .2252 is out of spec.

 

[Koda]

For me the answer would be "it depends".

My guess on this is 2 outcomes.
1) they arent safe and cause pressure that damages or destroys the rifle....
2) they are "safe" and will work but then when I resupply and get in spec bullets my load recipe is worthless and my velocities and POI and group size goes away... so whats the point of using these.

 

[aasbra]

I wouldn't be comfortable firing a jacketed bullet that diameter in a rifle chambered in .223 unless I had slugged the bore of that particular barrel and determined it was oversize, and thus suited for the bullets you have.

Lead bullets for lower pressure/velocity handgun calibers, may be a different story.

 

[Bobbygun]

I used Google and typed in the OP's question. Interestingly someone else had asked the question on another forum and they were asking about LOS bullets measuring the same .2252". The response that poster got from LOS was that the bullets were fine for a .223. Personally, I've never heard of LOS bullets or Brian Enos (whose forum it was on) so I wouldn't rely on this information. Just surprising that the exact same question with the exact same measurement was asked in 2020.

 

[CLT65]

My guess on this is 2 outcomes.
1) they arent safe and cause pressure that damages or destroys the rifle....
2) they are "safe" and will work but then when I resupply and get in spec bullets my load recipe is worthless and my velocities and POI and group size goes away... so whats the point of using these.

Exactly. The funny thing is that it's not the bore diameter that's typically the limiting factor, but the chamber/throat dimensions. If an oversize bullet causes the neck diameter to be oversize enough that it's tight in the chamber, that's where the real danger is.

If the chamber dimensions are such that the cartridge neck isn't tight when it chambers, then it shouldn't be a problem to work up a safe load. It's one of those things where you've got to know what you're doing though. Even minor differences in components can spell trouble.

 

[Koda]

Exactly. The funny thing is that it's not the bore diameter that's typically the limiting factor, but the chamber/throat dimensions. If an oversize bullet causes the neck diameter to be oversize enough that it's tight in the chamber, that's where the real danger is.

If the chamber dimensions are such that the cartridge neck isn't tight when it chambers, then it shouldn't be a problem to work up a safe load. It's one of those things where you've got to know what you're doing though. Even minor differences in components can spell trouble.

I also suspect its the ogive thats out too because thats what leads up to the diameter. I use a Hornady OAL gauge to check distance to lands on new bullets. I cant even seat to max saami COAL. Ive done a ton of rechecking and measuring and comparing to two other brands of bullets... those are all fine and reach the land way past saami max coal. Ive checked in two chambers my 556 and my 223 wylde, same issue they jam the lands before max coal.

The company was working with me until this week Ive got no replies. I got them to send me new samples to compare, those measure and fit the chambers fine... healthy jump to the lands from max COAL not below. Ive relayed this info and now its been 2 days with no word. Im nervous they are ghosting me... maybe they don't believe me but I'm out 94 bucks and very confident the bullets are bad. Ive asked here and so far nobody has showed me I'm off or said they would use them.
The real dilemma here is they put out a batch of bad bullets that might cause pressure problems.... I can see the temptation to cover it up. ...maybe they work but wont be consistent on the new orders which screws the customers over long term. The ball is in their court to do the right thing. There's nothing I can do if they dont. I sent one more email tonight.

 

[osprey]

Bullets are way out of spec and should not be shot. Any company worth their salt would make it right.

 

[Spitpatch]

I wouldn't as that size is meant for 225 Winchester cartridges.
Jamming the bullet into the lands risks pushing the bullet deeper into the case there by creating an unsafe situation.
I would not use them, if you're stuck with them don't use them till they are resized to max .224.

Huh? I'd be very interested in seeing a reference to .225 Winchester requiring a "special diameter" bullet aside from .224.

But...Since Winchester used "Dual Diameter" bullets to get freebore in the .264, I might not be surprised.

Edited to add: this is current manufacture stuff according to the OP, further precluding the ".225 Winchester" theory.

 

[Spitpatch]

I also suspect its the ogive thats out too because thats what leads up to the diameter. I use a Hornady OAL gauge to check distance to lands on new bullets. I cant even seat to max saami COAL. Ive done a ton of rechecking and measuring and comparing to two other brands of bullets... those are all fine and reach the land way past saami max coal. Ive checked in two chambers my 556 and my 223 wylde, same issue they jam the lands before max coal.

The company was working with me until this week Ive got no replies. I got them to send me new samples to compare, those measure and fit the chambers fine... healthy jump to the lands from max COAL not below. Ive relayed this info and now its been 2 days with no word. Im nervous they are ghosting me... maybe they don't believe me but I'm out 94 bucks and very confident the bullets are bad. Ive asked here and so far nobody has showed me I'm off or said they would use them.
The real dilemma here is they put out a batch of bad bullets that might cause pressure problems.... I can see the temptation to cover it up. ...maybe they work but wont be consistent on the new orders which screws the customers over long term. The ball is in their court to do the right thing. There's nothing I can do if they dont. I sent one more email tonight.

" The company was working with me..." So, what have they said about this so far?

"Once upon a time" I loaded (by mistake) some bullets for .303 British (.311) in a .308. The gun shot better than ever, and I wondered why. No pressure signs (but this was a below-max load).

But I won't do it again. (I hope.)

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Yeah, Im completely on hold with these. I should emphasise that I cant reach SAAMI maximum COAL without jamming the lands. Other bullets are fine with a long jump to the lands from SAAMI max.

resize the bullets through a sizer?

 

[Koda]

resize the bullets through a sizer?

Not the quality I paid for....

 

[Wombat of Doom]

I would return them then.

 

[Koda]

" The company was working with me..." So, what have they said about this so far?

They sent me sample bullets to compare with my order, that gave me confidence they were working with me.
The sample bullets both fit my chamber and mic'd in tolerance.
When I gave them the results I havent heard back. Its been 3 days and their typical response time is same day or next morning.

 

[Koda]

well so much for brand loyalty...
I picked this brand from their excellent reputation for terminal performance and customer support. Ive invested in their bullets for 2 other hunting rifles.... load development is time consuming and not cheap in todays supply chain situation.

Ive emailed twice this week and no reply. Am I over reacting? How long should I wait before judging Im being screwed?

 

[nammac]

well so much for brand loyalty...
I picked this brand from their excellent reputation for terminal performance and customer support. Ive invested in their bullets for 2 other hunting rifles.... load development is time consuming and not cheap in todays supply chain situation.

Ive emailed twice this week and no reply. Am I over reacting? How long should I wait before judging Im being screwed?

Can you not get them on the phone? I'd try to talk with them and see what they're willing to do. If you still get nowhere, then I guess you can drag their name through the mud…

 

[Koda]

Can you not get them on the phone? I'd try to talk with them and see what they're willing to do. If you still get nowhere, then I guess you can drag their name through the mud…

Ive always had excellent communication directly from the owner. Never waited more than a day for an email reply. Hes helped me with load dev questions and even sent me bullet samples to figure out this issue but now that Ive proved my order is bad I get nothing.
Ive thought about calling them tomorrow when I will have time during business hours but I do feel like Im being ghosted and wont get anywhere.
Maybe hes on vaca or took a couple days off. I dont want to over react and make an issue if its a misunderstanding....

 

[DizzyJ]

Doesn't sound like Berger, Sierra or Nosler.

 

[osprey]

Bullets are way out of spec and should not be shot. Any company worth their salt would make it right.

Actually I looked at that dimension wrong, they would not be dangerous to shoot if seated deeper and powder charge adjusted accordingly. Accuracy may or may not suffer. I have shot a fair amount of 7.62x39 factory .310 and .311 ammo out of a .308 bore with no signs of excess pressure and decent accuracy. The fact remains that the bullets you bought are not as advertised, so they should make it right.

 

[Koda]

Doesn't sound like Berger, Sierra or Nosler.

Whats interesting in all this measuring samples i found one, one Barnes bullet in my supply that was oversized. It still fit the bore but did jam the lands way sooner than the rest of the Barnes.

I will be mic-ing samples from any new supply I order. Mistakes happen, but its a matter of if the company will stand behind their quality....

Im still waiting for a refund. :/

 

[bpyycpyy]

Doesn't sound like Berger, Sierra or Nosler.

I had a complete box of Nosler Accubonds in .308 that started corroding where the tip was adhered to the bullet (seems this was a problem at some point). Contacted them last year and through a series of emails, they stated at the beginning of April they would replace them when they had inventory but I have yet to see any shipped out (one would assume that between April 10th to now that some should have become available).