Can’t seat bullet long enough to touch rifling

[RugerFan]

I just bought a ruger m77 in 22-250 off my neighbor. It came with a set of dies so I decided to load up some rounds. I'm having issues of the bullet not hitting the rifling unless the bullet is just barely pushed into the neck. Is it more important to have more bullet in the neck or closer to the rifling?

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[orygun]

First, it has to have proper neck tension to be consistent. Second, seating close to the rifling can help accuracy. If you can't keep the first one chasing the second, the second doesn't matter. Weatherby's never get close to the rifling and are known as being accurate.

 

[Local Loader]

I'd find some factory rounds and compare it to that. Or if you have the specs sheet for them than I'd start there. If the bullet is unable to be safely seated than pushing the bullet out is a big no go. Also if the rifle holds more than 1 round than you'll need to see how far you can go before you can't load the internal mag chamber. 1/16th" below max internal space is the max length I would personally use but I'd would recommend reduce it to 3/8th" or 1/4" below max internal length to avoid possible jamming during feeding.

 

[RugerFan]

First, it has to have proper neck tension to be consistent. Second, seating close to the rifling can help

accuracy. If you can't keep the first one chasing the second, the second doesn't matter. Weatherby's never get close to the rifling and are known as being accurate.

First, it has to have proper neck tension to be consistent. Second, seating close to the rifling can help accuracy. If you can't keep the first one chasing the second, the second doesn't matter. Weatherby's never get close to the rifling and are known as being accurate.

I appreciate the reply and advice. I am using a 40 grain bullet so it's pretty short. I'm going to buy some 52 grain bullets that should be longer so that should push it closer to the rifling.
Just out of curiosity, what's the best way to get consistent neck tension?

 

[bionic knees]

I have been shooting for 55+ years, never checked to see how far the bullet was from the rifling on a single gun, ever. I think sometimes we just overthink things. I have also been loading not quite as long, load to specs, if accuracy is a problem then start chasing. otherwise load em, shoot em, enjoy em.

 

[RugerFan]

I have been shooting for 55+ years, never checked to see how far the bullet was from the rifling on a single gun, ever. I think sometimes we just overthink things.

Do you seat to book oal? I usually don't get too hung up on length either, but I normally like being semi close to the rifling

 

[CO136]

Ya don't want the bullet against the lands. If it's jammed up against them pressures can go UP. As mentioned, bullet jump to the rifling can be an accuracy thing. Also have to watch OAL (see loadbook).

I load 55 gr VMax for my Savage 22-250. I'm 0.053" off the lands with this gun. I use a RCBS Precision Mic for measurements which seems to work pretty well.

 

[Local Loader]

I appreciate the reply and advice. I am using a 40 grain bullet so it's pretty short. I'm going to buy some 52 grain bullets that should be longer so that should push it closer to the rifling.
Just out of curiosity, what's the best way to get consistent neck tension?

Some people like to use crimp dies to get the tension but if you have the right seating die than it should have a crimp built in. One thing to note is that just because a bullet is heavier doesn't mean that it is longer, it could be the same length but have a fatter cone.

 

[bcp]

Two crude measurements:

Find your worse case, slit the neck and squeeze it a bit, barely seat a flat base bullet backwards, chamber, remove cartridge. Try it several times. This gives a visual indication of throat length.

Run a cleaning rod into the barrel against the bolt face, then mark it at the muzzle. Remove the rod. Drop a bullet into the chamber, hold it there. Insert your cleaning rod so it touches the bullet. Mark the rod again. The mark separation is your approximate max cartridge length. Check seating depth in relation to this distance.

Some Rugers had very long throats. Maybe yours is one.

Bruce

 

[RugerFan]

Two crude measurements:

Find your worse case, slit the neck and squeeze it a bit, barely seat a flat base bullet backwards, chamber, remove cartridge. Try it several times. This gives a visual indication of throat length.

Run a cleaning rod into the barrel against the bolt face, then mark it at the muzzle. Remove the rod. Drop a bullet into the chamber, hold it there. Insert your cleaning rod so it touches the bullet. Mark the rod again. The mark separation is your approximate max cartridge length. Check seating depth in relation to this distance.

Some Rugers had very long throats. Maybe yours is one.

Bruce

I that advice a try now. Thanks Bruce.
I must have one of the long throat rugers. It's not a huge deal as long as it shoots well. I'm going to go shoot it tomorrow and see how it does

 

[Koda]

It the rifle is throated long maybe its designed for longer (higher BC bullets). What twist rate is the barrel?
If the barrel has a fast twist and a long throat then its probably custom made. There are some companies now making long for caliber hunting bullets.


IMO Im beginning to think that long bullet jump isnt that detrimental to accuracy or even matters regardless of bullet. I wouldnt worry about it personally.

I would get a Hornady OAL gauge though.

 

[dangerranger60]

I have loaded a lot for 22-250, my opinion is you are using to light of a bullet. a 60 to 80 gr bullet will be about twice as long, and will let you seat out farther.
I got best accuracy with 62 gr bullets from my gun. but 80 gr bullets were accurate too. DR

 

[Koda]

I have loaded a lot for 22-250, my opinion is you are using to light of a bullet.

Depends on the twist rate of the barrel.

 

[po18guy]

You can try a Lee factory crimp die or a Lee collet die. The factory crimp is more for uniform ammo while the collet leans toward accuracy. If you load farther back from the lands, the gun will often tolerate hotter loads better. Part of Weatherby's idea was to give the bullet some jump before engaging the lands to lower initial pressure and raise velocity.

 

[orygun]

Just out of curiosity, what's the best way to get consistent neck tension?

The expander ball in the sizing die has the most to do with neck tension. Smaller diameter expands the brass less when removing the case from the die. If there isn't enough tension the ball can be sanded (in a drill or on a lathe), or a custom one purchased.

 

[Spitpatch]

1. NEVER crimp on a jacketed bullet that has no cannelure. If you crimp hard enough to "do any good" (i.e.: hold the bullet tighter than the walls of the neck), you have damaged an un-cannelured bullet. No modern bolt gun in a less-than-heavy caliber needs crimps on its bullets.

2. @bcp had great tips on "poor man's" OAL/throat measurement procedures. Use them in conjunction with each other, and in addition you can "paint" the ogive area (where the bullet's profile becomes its specific diameter) with a black marker (the old-school guys use candle soot). This will dramatically show rifling contact when that long dummy cartridge is chambered, and should happen precisely where a flat-based bullet loosely seated upside down demonstrates. Seat deeper in increments until the rifling marks do not show on your (freshly painted after each try) bullet.

3. Actual contact with rifling is to be avoided with jacketed bullets. Such is the realm of soft-lead blackpowder cartridge technique.

4. With your correctly adjusted dummy cartridge at a length just off the rifling, you may well find that an accuracy improvement, but the best OAL for THAT gun and THAT bullet and THAT brass may be even a bit further back.

5. Consistent neck tension should come naturally in the process of careful handloading, using matching (brand, times fired and trim length) brass, and quality dies. Benchresters use techniques to go further with this concern (inside/outside neck turning, etc.)

 

[P7M13]

Just out of curiosity, what's the best way to get consistent neck tension?

Welcome to the rabbit hole!

 

[HighlandLofts]

Seating depth does matter in accuracy.
A friend does long didtance shooting and one of his rifles like the bullet .03 off of the lands. Trial & error,

 

[Spitpatch]

Your 40 grain bullet is not "too short" for any factory 77 Ruger. However, it is not uncommon that lighter bullets (usually with less length) may not reach the rifling even seated to what you may deem a fairly shallow depth in the neck.

At the other end of the spectrum, the twist on these guns may NOT find the heavy, long bullets (60-70grain for MSR's with tighter twists) agreeable.

If you want to "chase the dragon" with your .22-250 for velocity, you made the right choice at 40 grains. You can "cheat" a little bit and use a Nosler Ballistic Tip which will "reach" toward your rifling a little more when seated and chambered. (It's a pretty long bullet for 40 grains). Use data for THAT bullet (not another 40gr).

As to seating depth minimums:

The old rule of thumb is to seat the base (and/or neck contact portion) of the bullet to a grip depth equal to diameter. (A .257 bullet should be by this rule seated at least 1/4" into the neck. Not counting a boattail base which establishes no neck contact.)

That is a rule for "field durability" (I.e.: a cartridge that you can toss in the front pocket of your Levi's with your car keys and $.47 in loose change, yank it out next week and shoot a deer with it.)

Bench durability requires no such ruggedness, and if you can get the (way long) cartridge from the press to the rifle without the bullet dropping off the end of the brass, you are peachy keen and no concerns about magazine function, etc.

Dog Town durability is somewhere in-between, and those cartridges need to survive a ride in a plastic box (foam pad on top of them if you are smart). They also need to function if your poodle-popper has a magazine. But they CAN certainly be longer than the old rule of thumb if your rifle likes bullets close to the lands.

Edited to add: Shallow seating should always be done with the knowledge that a deeper depth can insure better cartridge concentricity.

 

[TM-Salem]

Watch Eric Cortina's stop chasing the lands video on youtube. He will tell you how to find jam and then back out .020 to do powder charges and then seating depth to find the best seating depth and charge for accuracy in your rifle - powder charge weight - bullet combination