Oregon Oregon measure 114

[RedRover]

Today before m114 passes if you legally carry a normal gun with 12 rounds let's say, you are normal. If M114 passes and you carry the same gun you are not somehow transformed into a psychotic killer. Any lawyer can debunk that kind of Bullsheet in court.

Now if today you were carrying a grenade launcher with stickers that say I want to kill everyone you would be at risk both before and after m114 passes, because you were being a dumbass.

It's not what about what a lawyer can debunk, it's about whether a lawyer can get a portion of the jury to have a reasonable doubt pertaining to what the state has presented as their charges/evidence/expert witnesses.

That's the world we live in.
(Barring the convincing of a judge to supress the evidence due to a technicality).
As much as we'd like to believe that people think rationally, and that juries are objectively impartial, it often comes down to whether they believe a potential defendent in such a case is of 'good-moral character'. "He volunteers to clean graffiti off of walls on his day off" "He junior-cadets down at the local firehouse" etc.

While a defense could certainly be made (considering that the charge is only a misdemeanor, and not a felony), the presentation of good-moral character (AKA a law-abiding citizen) goes a long way in swaying the minds of jurors.
A person willingly breaking the law, doesn't necessarily convey 'good-moral character'. It is definitely a hurdle that would need to be navigated in one's defense.

 

[arakboss]

New-ish member here, and haven't taken the time to post my member intro. I have been getting the word out about 114 and convincing everyone I know to vote "no" on this trash heap.

I've read the law, but I'm kind of a dummy and am confused by the wording. I know the basics, but have a few questions that I'm hoping smarter folks here can answer.

I have seen a lot of "DO NOT COMPLY" or "MOVE TO A FREE STATE" responses on these threads. That is an obvious option, and one I don't need help understanding. The point of my post is to get clarity on the options I DO have a hard time understanding.

Assuming I choose to remain a law-abiding Oregonian:

1. Any kind of grandfather clause for magazines? The law states: "As of the effective date of this 2022 Act, it shall be an affirmative defense, as provided in ORS 166.055, to the unlawful possession, use and transfer of a large-capacity magazine in this state by any person, provided that: (a) The large-capacity magazine was owned by the person before the effective date of this 2022 Act and maintained in the person's control or possession; What are they saying here?
2. I am a CWP holder. Any carve outs for me? Do I still need to apply for a permit?
3. WTF are people supposed to do with their 15+1 and 17+1 pistols?
4. I saw something about .22 magazines in the law being exempt? Am I misreading that?
5. What is the effective date? Can't find it anywhere in the law.

Thanks for your help!

There is an exemption for tube mag fed 22 rimfires and lever action rifles.

B) An attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with 0.22 caliber rimfire ammunition; or
(C) A tubular ammunition feeding device that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

 

[PNWoakleaf]

What immaturity? I can choose to continue carrying normal capacity magazines & risk a misdemeanor charge.

If I received that misdemeanor I would lose the ability to reapply for a CHL for four years. Let alone the cost and legal fees and disclosure on all job applications of a misdemeanor firearm violation. If I then continued to carry and was caught it would require felony prison time. I'm glad you have enough time in life to risk that outcome, but I don't.

Carrying on person, concealed in a car is one of the only times one could get stopped by an officer for inadvertently having a taillight out, accidentally speeding, etc. Which could result in an officer asking if you have any weapons on you or subsequently having the authority to verify that question.

 

[The Heretic]

It's not what about what a lawyer can debunk, it's about whether a lawyer can get a portion of the jury to have a reasonable doubt pertaining to what the state has presented as their charges/evidence/expert witnesses.

That's the world we live in.
(Barring the convincing of a judge to supress the evidence due to a technicality).
As much as we'd like to believe that people think rationally, and that juries are objectively impartial, it often comes down to whether they believe a potential defendent in such a case is of 'good-moral character'. "He volunteers to clean graffiti off of walls on his day off" "He junior-cadets down at the local firehouse" etc.

While a defense could certainly be made (considering that the charge is only a misdemeanor, and not a felony), the presentation of good-moral character (AKA a law-abiding citizen) goes a long way in swaying the minds of jurors.
A person willingly breaking the law, doesn't necessarily convey 'good-moral character'. It is definitely a hurdle that would need to be navigated in one's defense.

Personally, I would anticipate that the emotional/political makeup of the jury would have more influence on the outcome than the ability of the lawyers involved and relatively insignificant facts of the case (like the number of rounds in the mag).

 

[1775usmc]

Well, this is a disappointing showing for this forum. This is posted under the topic of Fire Arms and Legal and NOT I cosplay as a sovereign citizen. I understand the post-election anger, but now I'm kinda not surprised the measure passed given the immaturity of these initial responses.

Haha….. I guess you can go ask for permission from your superiors if that makes you feel good. I'll keep doing what I've been doing for the past decade and more. Politicians don't keep me safe. LE doesn't keep me safe. I'm my own first response and I will carry and act accordingly. F-ck politicians. All of them. #APAC.

Better have thick skin here. Some of us are over all this sh!t.

Also if you're looking for legal advice this board won't hold up in court. Haha. Case law/state law/federal law. Google.

 

[arakboss]

Thank you. In regards to #3, does 114 outlaw conversion of a 17 round mag to 10 via round reduction device? A 10 round mag physically won't fit in my G45. I'd have to modify my 17 rounders or the firearm is useless.

It describes a mag that is "permanently" altered as OK. A jury would have to decide whether your conversion was Permanent or not.

 

[Librarian]

What immaturity? I can choose to continue carrying normal capacity magazines & risk a misdemeanor charge.

Understood.

Do recall that a conviction for a Class A misdemeanor brings a $6250 fine and up to 364 days in jail, per violation.

If one lives - or is compelled to go - where local LE is likely to pay attention to such a law, include that info in your decision making.

And then, do what is best for you.

 

[RedRover]

Oh, believe me that there is a difference between a $400 an hr. attorney, and what sort of legal 'experts' and criminal defense 'professionals' having a healthy legal defense chest will provide when it comes to "ability"...

vs.

One that gets paid by the state, and is swamped by a burdening caseload; generating a primary motivation on their part to make a plea agreement as expiditiously as possible to clear their overloaded plate.



The real underlying point is.. Carrying a >10 round mag after this law is on the books will be considered "unlawful possession", and a CLASS A MISDEMEANOR; punishable by a maximum of <365 days in jail and/or a fine of up to $6,250 - If convicted, a person will lose their right to a CCL for no less than 4 years.

Of course it is always a personal decision on how one chooses to go about their life, and yes.. the age old cliche adage that: "It's better to be judged by twelve, than to be carried by six" may contribute to one's thinking about how they want to be prepared.

Yet, this bubblegummity bubblegumming bubblegum has changed the landscape in Oregon, and now turned a bunch of law-abiding citizens into criminals for exercising their CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED INALIENABLE CIVIL RIGHT to self-defense both inside AND outside of our homes -- As we've all been stating for some time that's what it would do.

 

[JeremyK]

All elections are 100% rigged and the outcome has always been predicted years or even decades in advance.... This goes for Presidential elections and elections at state level. This world is a stage. All governments are in on it..

The elites are the ones who choose who can become president, governor, and what laws they want to pass.. It doesnt matter if the election process is mail in voting or electronic.. ALL of them can be 100% rigged!!! THEY ARE THE ONES IN CONTROL.

You vote doesnt mean jack $h&t. They are just giving you a false sense of "freedom" thinking that your vote actually matters.. lol.

The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do. - Joseph Stalin

My personal prediction is that the Elites have already chosen the democrat governor, and they will choose to pass measure 114 too... We will see how this plays out.

^This.

 

[UNO]

Firearms Policy Coalition is on it

 

[arakboss]

My wife and I sent our ballots in early. According to the secretary of state page for vote tracking they have not been counted. Something isn't right.

Firearms Policy Coalition is on it

View attachment 1307983

Can't wait to see that lawsuit printer go brrrr!

 

[arakboss]

Firearms Policy Coalition is on it

View attachment 1307983

Can't wait to see the lawsuit printer go BRRRR!

 

[BAJ475]

This will not stand up to strict scrutiny within the courts. Be patient.

Strict scrutiny is not the standard after NYSRPA v Bruen. It's THT (Text, history and tradition at the time the 2A was ratified) The 10rnd limit is likely to fall when Duncan is decided

 

[RedRover]

There is an exemption for tube mag fed 22 rimfires and lever action rifles.

B) An attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with 0.22 caliber rimfire ammunition; or
(C) A tubular ammunition feeding device that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

The original (so-called)"Assault" Rifle.

 

[PewPewDuckFan]

It describes a mag that is "permanently" altered as OK. A jury would have to decide whether your conversion was Permanent or not.

Interesting... does anyone have any clarity on what would pass as "permanent?" I'm just looking for the common sense options here.

 

[USAF Medic]

1. You can keep your existing standard 10+ cap mags but only use them in certain places. Don't expect to be able to legally carry them in your EDC.

2. No Soup carve outs for you.

3. Buy 10rnd mags if you want to carry them.

4. I haven't heard of any rimfire mag exemptions?

5. Effective date unknown but could be 30 days, 6 months or longer.

I wonder if a gunsmith could alter magazines to only hold 10 rounds. I have a browning BDA 380 and don't think they have 10 round magazines.

 

[arakboss]

I wonder if a gunsmith could alter magazines to only hold 10 rounds. I have a browning BDA 380 and don't think they have 10 round magazines.

There really hasn't been much in the way of court cases that would help somebody know what type of conversion might fly as permanent. I doubt many gunsmiths are going to guarantee a conversion as legal?? But you never know until you ask. @Velzey

 

[3MTA3]

Firearms Policy Coalition is on it

View attachment 1307983

I will be giving generous support to anybody who will fight this on our behalf.

 

[USAF Medic]

It will take a couple of years before all is in place to implement 114. Once in place, it will take a minimum of six months to get your firearms license/permit,

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I will be giving generous support to anybody who will fight this on our behalf.

Ditto. This is $ extremely well spent imo (assuming this group is effective, I don't know anything about them yet).