Oregon IPs 17 and 18 - They're back at it...

[Camelfilter]

I am no attorney but I just cannot see this law passing Constitutional muster if it's challenged in court. (Which it is bound to be.)

Here's the language in the proposed ballot measure:
"Oregon law currently allows persons over age 18 to acquire firearms (federal law requires age 21 for some handgun purchases), seller/ transferor must request criminal background check. Measure requires permit from local law enforcement to acquire firearm; person must pay fee, submit photo ID, fingerprints, complete approved safety training, pass criminal background check, not be prohibited from possessing firearms; officer may deny permit to person believed danger to self or others. Permit issued within 30 days, valid 5 years. Permit denials appealable. Must present permit, pass background check to acquire firearm. State Police creates/ maintains permit/ firearm database. Magazines over 10 rounds, or readily modifiable to exceed 10 rounds, prohibited; exception for current owners /inheritors. Exceptions for law enforcement, armed forces. Criminal penalties. Other provisions.[3]

A permit that can be denied?

State Police creates/ maintains permit/ firearm database? (Gun registration has already been deemed unconstitutional.)
The Brady Act is the law that created the background check system. The law states that authorities must destroy the records of each background check within 24 hours.

The Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986 (FOPA):

FOPA is a United States federal law that revised many of the Gun Control Act of 1968 provisions.

As such, FOPA makes it illegal for the national government or any state in the country to keep any database or registry that ties firearms directly to their owner. The exact wording of the provision is as follows:

13 States currently have permit schemes just to purchase a handgun.

7 of those States also have permit schemes to purchase long guns.

Its no surprise that anti-2A groups wish to further said schemes to other states.

 

[FALshot]

13 States currently have permit schemes just to purchase a handgun.

7 of those States also have permit schemes to purchase long guns.

Its no surprise that anti-2A groups wish to further said schemes to other states.

You mention "Schemes." Taking the word Scheme at face value, i.e.: an organized plan for doing something.

Are these schemes law? Proposed Bills or HR's in state legislature's?

I'm not questioning the validity of your information but do you have further information about the states involved?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Camelfilter]

You mention "Schemes." Taking the word Scheme at face value, i.e.: an organized plan for doing something.

Are these schemes law? Proposed Bills or HR's in state legislature's?

I'm not questioning the validity of your information but do you have further information about the states involved?

Thanks in advance.

Easy to read source:

The Effects of Licensing and Permitting Requirements

Analysis of the impact of licensing and permitting requirements on gun-related outcomes in the United States

www.rand.org

See notes for specific State schemes.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Don't forget, Washington State maintains an Illegal Registry that flys int he face of GCA 68, and Oregon's State Police, by gov'ners order maintain the same illegal registry, also despite GCA68! Why have these not been challenged in all this time?

 

[dancinghippos]

When you are the government you can do whatever you want and use tax money to pay lawyer to defend in court. The other side has an expensive uphill fight. Better if we can deny them the signatures and not have to fight an election and court battle

 

[dancinghippos]

I have a stack of flyers. They make points and refer to a website making more points. Who will take some and pass them out at local events?

 

[arakboss]

I am no attorney but I just cannot see this law passing Constitutional muster if it's challenged in court. (Which it is bound to be.)

Here's the language in the proposed ballot measure:
"Oregon law currently allows persons over age 18 to acquire firearms (federal law requires age 21 for some handgun purchases), seller/ transferor must request criminal background check. Measure requires permit from local law enforcement to acquire firearm; person must pay fee, submit photo ID, fingerprints, complete approved safety training, pass criminal background check, not be prohibited from possessing firearms; officer may deny permit to person believed danger to self or others. Permit issued within 30 days, valid 5 years. Permit denials appealable. Must present permit, pass background check to acquire firearm. State Police creates/ maintains permit/ firearm database. Magazines over 10 rounds, or readily modifiable to exceed 10 rounds, prohibited; exception for current owners /inheritors. Exceptions for law enforcement, armed forces. Criminal penalties. Other provisions.[3]

A permit that can be denied?

State Police creates/ maintains permit/ firearm database? (Gun registration has already been deemed unconstitutional.) (A "Database" is Registration.)
The Brady Act is the law that created the background check system. The law states that authorities must destroy the records of each background check within 24 hours.

The Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986 (FOPA):

FOPA is a United States federal law that revised many of the Gun Control Act of 1968 provisions.

As such, FOPA makes it illegal for the national government or any state in the country to keep any database or registry that ties firearms directly to their owner. The exact wording of the provision is as follows:


I don't want to underestimate what enemies of the Second Amendment will attempt but this looks like they're throwing everything they have at the wall to see what will stick.

The NRA has won every lawsuit that they have filed against governmental entities that have kept background check information on firearms purchasers.

Unfortunately it seems like lots of laws hang around while the courts go back and forth about whether they are constitutional or not. Do any other states having similar laws as what's proposed in IP17?

 

[FALshot]

Unfortunately it seems like lots of laws hang around while the courts go back and forth about whether they are constitutional or not. Do any other states having similar laws as what's proposed in IP17?

You pose a simple question. After a an hour or research my answer is: "Sort of." (Mostly I do not know.)

But this is good reading: (Obviously Concealed Carry of Pro Second Amendment.)

Are Guns Registered In The USA? 5 ATF Databases Exposed

When you purchase a gun, is the information recorded and stored somewhere? In other words, are guns registered when you buy them? The answer is complex..

www.concealedcarry.com

The media outlet "The Hill" is rated by Media Bias Fact Check as politically neutral. (They rarely do that.) This article is rather chilling,...Although the comparisons that they make between the limitations of owning an automobile and a firearm are off topic and nonsense in my opinion

Gun control is constitutional — just ask the Supreme Court

There should be a Wall of Grief with the names of mass shootings victims. But next to it should be a Wall of Shame with the names of lawmakers owned by the NRA.

thehill.com

I cannot find another state that requires a 5 year renewable permit to own a firearm. (And if I read Oregon's proposed ballot measure correctly, it does.)
I just cannot understand how a legislation can be passed into law that limits a Constitutional Right by a state issued permit. You have to ask the state if you can have a Constitutionally guaranteed right?

I hope I am incorrect but that is how I read it.

 

[dancinghippos]

This is the text of a handout flyer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
DON'T SIGN THE PETITION

A Portland group is circulating petitions for a gun law that will affect your personal protection, yet not affect violent criminals. Police officers overwhelmingly say these laws don't reduce crime, they only reduce your ability to protect yourself. They were tried 1994-2004 and had no measurable effect, according to a Congressional report.

Repeat offenders commit most violent crimes. The same FEW people, already known to the police, already banned from having guns. They have guns, and these laws ensure you don't. If you live in a high crime area, do you want to be prosecuted for having self defense?

When seconds count, police are 10-20 minutes away. If a violent ex shows up, or a home invasion, or another riot breaks out where you happen to be; violence is sudden and you are on your own until police arrive if they arrive. Don't sign away your rights of self defense on a false promise of "safety". You may need them one day. Or your daughter might.

www.dontsignit.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

They are about 8" x 5". I printed a bunch and can print more. I need help distributing them around the western Oregon area. Hand them out at gatherings and put them on windshields in the parking lots.

If you are willing to help us, LIKE this post.

When I see it, I will reach out to you via the private mail feature here and arrange to meet you with a pile of flyers. When you run out we arrange for more.

It suxs that we cannot rely on our own local papers or TV for an honest appraisal of this petition. But this is what we have and fighting this idiot petition later will be worse.

Thanks,
Dancing Hippos

 

[nwslopoke]

13 States currently have permit schemes just to purchase a handgun.

7 of those States also have permit schemes to purchase long guns.

Its no surprise that anti-2A groups wish to further said schemes to other states.

Permits, background checks, magazine capacity limits, age requirements and so on. All those and these horrific events keep happening. They want to blame the NRA, Trump, Republicans...but it's never the schools which keep pushing these loonies or the courts which won't lock them up.

I know a woman on her 5-6 marriage. Some how these bad guys keep finding her. Or she just might be the problem. Anti gunners can only see one thing while ignoring everything else surrounding the problem.

 

[AshWilliams]

I am no attorney but I just cannot see this law passing Constitutional muster if it's challenged in court. (Which it is bound to be.)

Here's the language in the proposed ballot measure:
"Oregon law currently allows persons over age 18 to acquire firearms (federal law requires age 21 for some handgun purchases), seller/ transferor must request criminal background check. Measure requires permit from local law enforcement to acquire firearm; person must pay fee, submit photo ID, fingerprints, complete approved safety training, pass criminal background check, not be prohibited from possessing firearms; officer may deny permit to person believed danger to self or others. Permit issued within 30 days, valid 5 years. Permit denials appealable. Must present permit, pass background check to acquire firearm. State Police creates/ maintains permit/ firearm database. Magazines over 10 rounds, or readily modifiable to exceed 10 rounds, prohibited; exception for current owners /inheritors. Exceptions for law enforcement, armed forces. Criminal penalties. Other provisions.[3]

A permit that can be denied?

State Police creates/ maintains permit/ firearm database? (Gun registration has already been deemed unconstitutional.) (A "Database" is Registration.)
The Brady Act is the law that created the background check system. The law states that authorities must destroy the records of each background check within 24 hours.

The Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986 (FOPA):

FOPA is a United States federal law that revised many of the Gun Control Act of 1968 provisions.

As such, FOPA makes it illegal for the national government or any state in the country to keep any database or registry that ties firearms directly to their owner. The exact wording of the provision is as follows:


I don't want to underestimate what enemies of the Second Amendment will attempt but this looks like they're throwing everything they have at the wall to see what will stick.

The NRA has won every lawsuit that they have filed against governmental entities that have kept background check information on firearms purchasers.

Great post!

I think there are already a few states though that require a gun permit? One of the northeast states?

 

[_Will_]

Just having moved to Polk County, I don't see how anyone out here south of Multnomah or Washington would even care about IP17 or 18. Things are very different in Independence and the surrounding areas. Plus the Sheriff for Polk has a memorandum of understanding not to enforce unconstitutional gun laws. Lol

The petitioners only represent a small fraction of Oregonians. Multnomah is a brown stain in Oregons shorts.

 

[arakboss]

Just having moved to Polk County, I don't see how anyone out here south of Multnomah or Washington would even care about IP17 or 18. Things are very different in Independence and the surrounding areas. Plus the Sheriff for Polk has a memorandum of understanding not to enforce unconstitutional gun laws. Lol

The petitioners only represent a small fraction of Oregonians. Multnomah is a brown stain in Oregons shorts.

The problem lies with FFLs and retailers. They usually comply with laws so they don't risk losing their FFL or being penalized.

 

[dancinghippos]

Just having moved to Polk County, I don't see how anyone out here south of Multnomah or Washington would even care about IP17 or 18. Things are very different in Independence and the surrounding areas. Plus the Sheriff for Polk has a memorandum of understanding not to enforce unconstitutional gun laws. Lol

The petitioners only represent a small fraction of Oregonians. Multnomah is a brown stain in Oregons shorts.

You are betting a lot on the kindly intentions of today's Polk sheriff. How long can you count on that? A handful of populous areas managed to control all levers of state government who have the power to crush anyone.

 

[_Will_]

You are betting a lot on the kindly intentions of today's Polk sheriff. How long can you count on that? A handful of populous areas managed to control all levers of state government who have the power to crush anyone.

Perhaps im naive.. Like I said its different out here. I routinely hear people target shooting half mile down the road from where I live. This defeatist attitude doesn't help us either. The " lift every voice Oregon petitioners" are playing dirty and use any tragedy to push their agenda. I wish we could be in a offensive position vs defensive 98% of the time. We all need to collectively push back on this somehow.

 

[Ura-Ki]

My Sheriff in Teller County Co. Flipped on us one day outta the blue, and for the last two years, he refuses to answer me how or why! I'm not just Joe Citizen, he and I are actually friends and neighbors, we have BBQs at each other's homes, our wives go shopping together and such! At first, his lead Deputy had taken over much of the operations, and then even she flipped, now, the entire office have some how flipped! It's not like we're enemies now, or anything like that, it's just that they have somehow lost the will and determination to stand up against unlawful actions, almost like they got a visit from someone way up the flag poll in the DOJ and threatened with really bad things if they didn't toe the line!

I really need to ask Sheriff Joe here in Marion County if he still refuses to enforce unlawful stuff along with the local P.D!

 

[HA556]

We all need to collectively push back on this somehow.

Man, I could unload a whole lot here but, I'll just say, you are not wrong on this!

 

[tiggers97]

I really do believe that understanding your opponent is the best way to find their weakness to defeat them.
If you haven't already figured it out, Penny Okkomoto of CeaseFire fame is the engine behind the Lift-Every-Voice campaign. If ever there were a posterchild for what the 1900's prohibition movement would look like today, she's it. (rumors in the past even said the dem politicians in Salem don't like her).

As such, I've found a few resources you can use to learn more about them.

Where they expect to be to gather signatures;
And the material they ask people to download
As well as a group they use to help coordinate. Note: do not engage them. It is better to remain silent than to be banned and loose a resource to gather intel. They claim to invite an open dialog, but the truth is they have no problem with banning people. Even going so far as to look at who is leaving thumbs up or other replies to ban people.

I still believe one of the best ways to help defeat this movement is to watch them make mistakes that will disqualify sheets, and even all the sigs a person has gathered.

1. One thing I've noticed missing from the material and one persons sig sheet is a copy of the ballot measures. Some have a QR code, but that is not the same as providing a copy to review prior to signing. If they don't have it (and it's readable)? Be sure you have their name first before asking. If they don't I think that is a reason to deny their sig sheets (and possibly any collected before that).
2. Do they leave the table/notebook unattended? Snap a photo. Get names
3. See someone with white and light-blue sig pages? Snap a photo. Get names
4. Do the light-blue (paid collectors) have their badge with them? Make sure you have a name, then ask. If no? document it.

We know they are using misleading information to gather signatures. So making sure they toe the line on the rules is the least we can do.

 

[dancinghippos]

My Sheriff in Teller County Co. Flipped on us one day outta the blue, and for the last two years, he refuses to answer me how or why! I'm not just Joe Citizen, he and I are actually friends and neighbors, we have BBQs at each other's homes, our wives go shopping together and such! At first, his lead Deputy had taken over much of the operations, and then even she flipped, now, the entire office have some how flipped! It's not like we're enemies now, or anything like that, it's just that they have somehow lost the will and determination to stand up against unlawful actions, almost like they got a visit from someone way up the flag poll in the DOJ and threatened with really bad things if they didn't toe the line!

I really need to ask Sheriff Joe here in Marion County if he still refuses to enforce unlawful stuff along with the local P.D!

Political people with connections in the media can destroy his career with hyped up false charges of anything. It's how they do things. If they can frame a president for treason and a judge for attempted sexual assault, what do you think they will do to a nobody like your friend?

 

[Ziggy44]

Just having moved to Polk County, I don't see how anyone out here south of Multnomah or Washington would even care about IP17 or 18. Things are very different in Independence and the surrounding areas. Plus the Sheriff for Polk has a memorandum of understanding not to enforce unconstitutional gun laws. Lol

The petitioners only represent a small fraction of Oregonians. Multnomah is a brown stain in Oregons shorts.

Welcome to Polk County, it's a little different here.