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I can live with that.
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Oregon IPs 17 and 18 - They're back at it...
- Thread Starter M_in_NW
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Does this work as a website?
A Portland group is collecting signatures for more gun laws. PLEASE DO NOT SIGN. They don't stop gun crimes, according to the majority of police officers. Don't give up your personal ability to protect yourself. Don't prevent others from protecting themselves. Police only arrive after the damage is done. You are all you have until then.
The majority of gun crimes come from a relative handful of repeat offenders. They are already forbidden from owning guns, but they have them anyway. Criminals who ignore murder and robbery laws do not obey gun laws. One day after the Uvalde shooting, felon Dennis Butler was told to stop speeding where children were playing. He returned with a gun he was not allowed to own and shot at a children's party there. Gun laws did not stop him. A mother with her own gun shot him and prevented a tragedy. Because she stopped a massacre before it started, she barely made the news.
How do we know those laws don't affect crime?
Because they have already failed. Ask any police officer if laws registering or banning so-called "semi-automatic" gun or large magazines affect crime. They will say NO. PoliceOne, an organization of 450,000 active and retired officers, surveyed 15,000 members on gun control policies. 71% of them said a ban on so-called "assault weapons" would have no effect on violent crime. 20% of the respondents said it would make crime worse. The numbers were even more striking when asking about magazine size restrictions.
This is a link to a summary of the results:
www.police1.com
The 1994 crime bill banned semi-automatic guns and magazines over 10 rounds. Congress required a study of the law's effects on crime and added a 10-year sunset provision. Researchers from both sides studied the results and concluded there was no measurable effect on crime. Congress let the law expire because it did no good.
Gun control laws only hurt victims, especially in marginalized communities where gangs and violence hurt people the most
Wealthy white liberals feel virtuous by pushing these laws on poor communities, but they only hurt the people who live there. Muggers and dealers will be armed no matter what the laws are. Residents are afraid to call police. A gun evens the odds, so the attacker will be less likely to take the risk.
What about school shooters?
Israel had this same problem with terrorists in their first years. In 1974, they hardened their schools and trained a few staff to shoot back. Since 1974, there have only been two such incidents. American has 112,000 elementary and secondary schools. We could do the same for $50 Billion, about we have spent on Ukraine and much less than we spent on energy subsidies.
You may not be concerned about self-protection today. Don't forbid yourself from changing your mind if your concerns change:
An ex gets violent; people from a nearby encampment break into your home; a mob hates your identity, lifestyle or religion. Seattle PD just admitted they don't have resources to investigate sexual assaults. Other agencies aren't as honest, but you are ON YOUR OWN. Don't throw away your ability to protect yourself. When seconds count, the police are 10-20 minutes away.
Maybe it will stop with this new law
No, it won't. When this law has no measurable effect on crime, they will add more laws that affect the law-abiding but not violent offenders. It is easier to blame guns than people. If these laws worked, Chicago and Mexico would be the safest places on earth.
It is the police job to protect us
If the police could protect you, the Uvalde and Parkland children would still be alive. Both shooters posted threats to the schools on social media, but nothing was done. In both cases, police huddled outside while children were being killed inside. Seattle PD just admitted they don't have resources to investigate sexual assults on adult women. Do you want to rely on this kind of protection?
Police write good reports, but if they aren't already there and allowed to help, you are on your own. If you need protection, you better have it with you. Don't sign away your rights to protect yourself in the future. You know it won't stop here. Don't pay with your safety for the crimes of a handful of repeat offenders who would already be in jail if we enforced existing laws.
A Portland group is collecting signatures for more gun laws. PLEASE DO NOT SIGN. They don't stop gun crimes, according to the majority of police officers. Don't give up your personal ability to protect yourself. Don't prevent others from protecting themselves. Police only arrive after the damage is done. You are all you have until then.
The majority of gun crimes come from a relative handful of repeat offenders. They are already forbidden from owning guns, but they have them anyway. Criminals who ignore murder and robbery laws do not obey gun laws. One day after the Uvalde shooting, felon Dennis Butler was told to stop speeding where children were playing. He returned with a gun he was not allowed to own and shot at a children's party there. Gun laws did not stop him. A mother with her own gun shot him and prevented a tragedy. Because she stopped a massacre before it started, she barely made the news.
How do we know those laws don't affect crime?
Because they have already failed. Ask any police officer if laws registering or banning so-called "semi-automatic" gun or large magazines affect crime. They will say NO. PoliceOne, an organization of 450,000 active and retired officers, surveyed 15,000 members on gun control policies. 71% of them said a ban on so-called "assault weapons" would have no effect on violent crime. 20% of the respondents said it would make crime worse. The numbers were even more striking when asking about magazine size restrictions.
This is a link to a summary of the results:
PoliceOne's Gun Control Survey: 11 key lessons from officers' perspectives
Never before has such a comprehensive survey of law enforcement officers’ opinions on gun control, gun violence, and gun rights been conducted
www.police1.com
The 1994 crime bill banned semi-automatic guns and magazines over 10 rounds. Congress required a study of the law's effects on crime and added a 10-year sunset provision. Researchers from both sides studied the results and concluded there was no measurable effect on crime. Congress let the law expire because it did no good.
Gun control laws only hurt victims, especially in marginalized communities where gangs and violence hurt people the most
Wealthy white liberals feel virtuous by pushing these laws on poor communities, but they only hurt the people who live there. Muggers and dealers will be armed no matter what the laws are. Residents are afraid to call police. A gun evens the odds, so the attacker will be less likely to take the risk.
What about school shooters?
Israel had this same problem with terrorists in their first years. In 1974, they hardened their schools and trained a few staff to shoot back. Since 1974, there have only been two such incidents. American has 112,000 elementary and secondary schools. We could do the same for $50 Billion, about we have spent on Ukraine and much less than we spent on energy subsidies.
You may not be concerned about self-protection today. Don't forbid yourself from changing your mind if your concerns change:
An ex gets violent; people from a nearby encampment break into your home; a mob hates your identity, lifestyle or religion. Seattle PD just admitted they don't have resources to investigate sexual assaults. Other agencies aren't as honest, but you are ON YOUR OWN. Don't throw away your ability to protect yourself. When seconds count, the police are 10-20 minutes away.
Maybe it will stop with this new law
No, it won't. When this law has no measurable effect on crime, they will add more laws that affect the law-abiding but not violent offenders. It is easier to blame guns than people. If these laws worked, Chicago and Mexico would be the safest places on earth.
It is the police job to protect us
If the police could protect you, the Uvalde and Parkland children would still be alive. Both shooters posted threats to the schools on social media, but nothing was done. In both cases, police huddled outside while children were being killed inside. Seattle PD just admitted they don't have resources to investigate sexual assults on adult women. Do you want to rely on this kind of protection?
Police write good reports, but if they aren't already there and allowed to help, you are on your own. If you need protection, you better have it with you. Don't sign away your rights to protect yourself in the future. You know it won't stop here. Don't pay with your safety for the crimes of a handful of repeat offenders who would already be in jail if we enforced existing laws.
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Does this work as a handout?
DON'T SIGN THE PETITION
A Portland group is circulating petitions for a gun law that will affect your personal protection, yet not affect violent criminals. Police officers overwhelmingly say these laws don't reduce crime, they only reduce your ability to protect yourself. They were tried 1994-2004 and had no measurable effect, according to a Congressional report.
Repeat offenders commit most violent crimes. The same FEW people, already known to the police, already banned from having guns. They have guns, and these laws ensure you don't. If you live in a high crime area, do you want to be prosecuted for having self defense?
When seconds count, police are 10-20 minutes away. If a violent ex shows up, or a home invasion, or another riot breaks out where you happen to be; violence is sudden and you are on your own until police arrive if they arrive. Don't sign away your rights of self defense on a false promise of "safety". You may need them one day. Or your daughter might.
<path to website dot com>
PUT QR CODE TO WEBSITE HERE
DON'T SIGN THE PETITION
A Portland group is circulating petitions for a gun law that will affect your personal protection, yet not affect violent criminals. Police officers overwhelmingly say these laws don't reduce crime, they only reduce your ability to protect yourself. They were tried 1994-2004 and had no measurable effect, according to a Congressional report.
Repeat offenders commit most violent crimes. The same FEW people, already known to the police, already banned from having guns. They have guns, and these laws ensure you don't. If you live in a high crime area, do you want to be prosecuted for having self defense?
When seconds count, police are 10-20 minutes away. If a violent ex shows up, or a home invasion, or another riot breaks out where you happen to be; violence is sudden and you are on your own until police arrive if they arrive. Don't sign away your rights of self defense on a false promise of "safety". You may need them one day. Or your daughter might.
<path to website dot com>
PUT QR CODE TO WEBSITE HERE
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But Portland is and they have the numbers to vote through this type of crap.
Seattle is same-
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Frist off; DON"T SIGN THE PETITION.
Second: a few years ago when they first started their movement, I actually went to tone of their signature gathering trainings. I went because I was sincerely curious about what they actually say in person. Who are these people? They didn't disappoint as the instructor told people to not bother reading the ballot measure since it was so technical. "gun prohibition" slipped their lips once or twice.
But most importantly, they listed the does and don't of signature gathering. So I would suggest taking the training for the following reasons.
1, Learn what disqualifies petitions. When Prozanski was being recalled, one pro-prozanski group lied about one petition gatherer not following the rules. It ended up with a few thousand signatures getting tossed, instead of fighting it. If you know the rules, you know what to document.
2. Learn what their talking points are. If you know what's important to them, and what they avoid talking about, it helps fight their narrative.
3. You get to learn how to support future ballot initiatives, and what's involved to make them successful! The recalls after SB541 partially failed not due to motivated individuals, but an understanding and experience of what it takes to make it successful.
Here's one example I learned recently:
paid signature gatherers must use different colored paper from volunteers. And they must proclaim in bold letters "Some Circulators For This Petition Are Being Paid." Catch one? (or a volunteer using the other) and all the signatures that person collected may be viewed as tainted. (they recently switched to using paid gathers. Check craigslist if your looking for a summer job. No comment on how well you do it...)
Also, if they do not have the full text of the ballot initiative with them while collecting? Also a disqualifier.
The more you know!
edit: here's the states official guide.
edit2: anyone familiar with Oregon law regarding elected officials campaigning for and promoting supposedly independent ballot initiatives?
Second: a few years ago when they first started their movement, I actually went to tone of their signature gathering trainings. I went because I was sincerely curious about what they actually say in person. Who are these people? They didn't disappoint as the instructor told people to not bother reading the ballot measure since it was so technical. "gun prohibition" slipped their lips once or twice.
But most importantly, they listed the does and don't of signature gathering. So I would suggest taking the training for the following reasons.
1, Learn what disqualifies petitions. When Prozanski was being recalled, one pro-prozanski group lied about one petition gatherer not following the rules. It ended up with a few thousand signatures getting tossed, instead of fighting it. If you know the rules, you know what to document.
2. Learn what their talking points are. If you know what's important to them, and what they avoid talking about, it helps fight their narrative.
3. You get to learn how to support future ballot initiatives, and what's involved to make them successful! The recalls after SB541 partially failed not due to motivated individuals, but an understanding and experience of what it takes to make it successful.
Here's one example I learned recently:
paid signature gatherers must use different colored paper from volunteers. And they must proclaim in bold letters "Some Circulators For This Petition Are Being Paid." Catch one? (or a volunteer using the other) and all the signatures that person collected may be viewed as tainted. (they recently switched to using paid gathers. Check craigslist if your looking for a summer job. No comment on how well you do it...)
Also, if they do not have the full text of the ballot initiative with them while collecting? Also a disqualifier.
The more you know!
edit: here's the states official guide.
edit2: anyone familiar with Oregon law regarding elected officials campaigning for and promoting supposedly independent ballot initiatives?
Last Edited:
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Texas massacre spurs Oregon gun-safety ballot initiative
KATU ABC 2 offers coverage of news, weather, sports and community events for Portland, Oregon and surrounding towns, including Beaverton, Lake Oswego, Milwaukie, Happy Valley, Gresham, Vancouver, Hillsboro, Oregon City, Tualatin, West Linn, Woodburn, Tigard, Tualatin and Garden Home.
katu.com
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Wonder what's gonna happen to all this nonsense when SCOTUS issues it's ruling this month which by all accounts will strike ALL of this sh!t down HARD!Texas massacre spurs Oregon gun-safety ballot initiative
KATU ABC 2 offers coverage of news, weather, sports and community events for Portland, Oregon and surrounding towns, including Beaverton, Lake Oswego, Milwaukie, Happy Valley, Gresham, Vancouver, Hillsboro, Oregon City, Tualatin, West Linn, Woodburn, Tigard, Tualatin and Garden Home.
On top of that, there are two more MAJOR 2nd cases set to go before the high court, both of which would also slam this into the ground bloody!
Fingers Crossed!
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Where do you think the signature gatherers will be this weekend? My graphic artist is back. I am hoping to have some flyers and a website made by Saturday. I can pay a printer to make the handouts that introduce the idea and link to a website. Just need folks to hand them out.
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Finally we get a recent number in a news report. That worries me they have got such a jump in sig gatherers but that is well short of what they need. Usually a campaingn will try to get more than the required amount because some get tossed but I am guessing SOS won't scrutinize their list much. Hopefully we have 2A groups who will pour over the list?Texas massacre spurs Oregon gun-safety ballot initiative
KATU ABC 2 offers coverage of news, weather, sports and community events for Portland, Oregon and surrounding towns, including Beaverton, Lake Oswego, Milwaukie, Happy Valley, Gresham, Vancouver, Hillsboro, Oregon City, Tualatin, West Linn, Woodburn, Tigard, Tualatin and Garden Home.
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Some will get tossed. Better we sow doubts in the minds of passersby and they don't sign to start.
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I posted the schedule above.
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So, if I am reading the story correctly - they have 52,000 signatures and need a total of 112,080. They are not even halfway there with less than a month left.
GOOD LUCK!!!
GOOD LUCK!!!
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Problem is, after a few years in the gun control doldrums, they've now got some major wind in their sails. Hopefully the rainy weather puts a damper on their collection efforts.So, if I am reading the story correctly - they have 52,000 signatures and need a total of 112,080. They are not even halfway there with less than a month left.
GOOD LUCK!!!
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Given the current climate, if it gets on the ballot it will absolutely pass.
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So a moment of advice? It seems appropriate to show up at community events where lots of people are there (county fairs, rose festival, etc). Tomorrow is that "march for our lives" thing, where the whole point of the gathering is their politics. Have pro-gun people shown up at things like that with signs or flyers? How did that go?
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Last Edited:
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Hm... seems like a lot of super-spreader events with the rise in covid cases...
20k additional signatures in the last two week. That is a big jump seeing how long they've already been gathering to get the first 30k. Not that the local news media isn't promoting it more than they have in the last few months. Or a few politicians have been raising awareness and putting it into their news letters (I wonder what the campaigning laws are for politicians to promote ballots?)
Even at 20K each for the next three weeks, i's still (hopefully) going to fall way short.
If not, and you go to the events, remember to get educated on the do's/don'ts on signature gathering.
Edit: weather shows it raining over the next two weekends.
Edit2: Some more info from the SOS website here:
Only two colors are allowed. White for volunteers. And light blue for paid collectors. So if you see someone carrying both colors? Document it!
Apparently the paid collectors must also be carrying a badge provided by the SOS. No badge? breaking the rules!
Here's a link to some other rules they have to follow:
20k additional signatures in the last two week. That is a big jump seeing how long they've already been gathering to get the first 30k. Not that the local news media isn't promoting it more than they have in the last few months. Or a few politicians have been raising awareness and putting it into their news letters (I wonder what the campaigning laws are for politicians to promote ballots?)
Even at 20K each for the next three weeks, i's still (hopefully) going to fall way short.
If not, and you go to the events, remember to get educated on the do's/don'ts on signature gathering.
Edit: weather shows it raining over the next two weekends.
Edit2: Some more info from the SOS website here:
Only two colors are allowed. White for volunteers. And light blue for paid collectors. So if you see someone carrying both colors? Document it!
Apparently the paid collectors must also be carrying a badge provided by the SOS. No badge? breaking the rules!
Here's a link to some other rules they have to follow:
Last Edited:
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Checked it out. Nice work!
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I like it but it has a dark vibe with the colors. Congrats on getting it up and running.
Edit: After reviewing the site again on my desktop, it looks great. Color scheme is fine and it makes it pretty easy to read. Good job!
Last Edited:
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