Open Carry... Home Depot Vancouver

[ob1]

Start with a person who is indifferent or has misconceptions about guns. Add an experience where they see normal, everyday folk carrying guns in a responsible manner. Add educational discussion, present factual information, and let them simmer overnight. Congratulations! You have just created a convert to understanding the right to bear arm

The ones who are against guns already have their minds made up. They are lost to us, and nothing we do will change that. These folks will only change their mind when they have some personal, life changing event. The person with the negative attitude is already voting for gun control measures and working against us. It is the "Independents" we need to reach. The ones who haven't made up their mind and are open to receiving input or maybe a nudge to educate themselves and explore the idea with an open mind.

Here is the problem with your "recipe". You are supposedly speaking with people who are not initiated in the practice of open carry or firearms in general. You describe them as "Independents".

Now, take a look at the percentage of posters just in this thread who have described their misgivings on the whole idea of open carry in an urban environment, even though they acknowledge your right to do so. Would you also describe these people as not informed in gun matters or "independents" ? I hope not..... These people are well aware of their rights and responsibilties and have made a considered choice not to open carry. These people remember the "dark times" when you practically had to be J. Edgar Hoover to receive a concealed permit. Those of us in this category dont want to see these gains threatened by well-intentioned, but inadequate or unprepared spokesman of "the cause". We have come a long way since then, and the last thing we need is to have more people who may not have the "Johnny Appleseed" powers as you, engaging in potentially heated discourse (with an exposed 1911 on their hip) creating the wrong perception, not the right one.
I applaud your salesman's ability to inform and persuade. Problem is, most dont have it. Instead, with increased exposed carry in urban settings, we will have a growing number of incidents of a negative nature.

I will be as cryptic as possible in this analogy: I have in mind a "character" in the local Portland area gun show circuit. He shows up at almost every show with a boisterous manner to attract the maximum attention possible to himself. (some probably already know who I am describing here)
He then starts to pollute the immediate area around him with "his version" of the way things oughta be. I am sure he thinks he is really providing a service to the gun community at large with his evangelism. In reality, when you catch the expression on the faces of the poor people who make good their escape, it is one of "what a goober" and "that guy is an example of why people want gun control". And, remember, this guy is playing to a "friendly" audience !

For those who genuinely have the calling for the bully pulpit, more power to you. But to be effective, please be constantly prepared to engage in effective and competent discourse. How many are really willing and able to take this on, as opposed to simply adopting this as the "other reason" they carry exposed ?

 

[BUZO71]

well, I don't think we area disagreeing. OC is a viable option, but the idea that if you don't OC you are losing the right is not true. As far as 'training Uncle Sam' gave you to protect your firearm, well, ok. When is the last time you practiced it? As far as the comparision, cops/civilians same/same when it comes to someone taking your gun except cops practice it regularly.

 

[LoneRider]

Here is the problem with your "recipe". You are supposedly speaking with people who are not initiated in the practice of open carry or firearms in general. You describe them as "Independents".

Now, take a look at the percentage of posters just in this thread who have described their misgivings on the whole idea of open carry in an urban environment, even though they acknowledge your right to do so. Would you also describe these people as not informed in gun matters or "independents" ? I hope not..... These people are well aware their rights and responsibilties and have made a considered choice not to open carry.

I don't initiate contact with anyone, if someone gives me a dirty look or makes a disparaging remark, I ignore it and go about my business. It isn't about attention or confrontation. I am simply living my life. I agree, a pro gun, but anti-OC person is not an independent and has made up their mind. If they approach me and want to berate my decision, I would treat them the same. If they wanted to discuss the advantages or disadvantages in civil discourse I would be fine with that.

While there are those for and against OC, even in the gun community there are independents as well. Three years ago I was one. I have owned guns for 25 years, had my carry permit for 15 years and have carried daily for the past 10 years. I was unaware of the legality of OC, and was strictly CC. The occasional times OC came up I ignored it for the most part and went along with the "element of surprise mindset".

As time went on, I thought more about prevention vs. response. This might have something to do with my career and what I have seen over the years in the way of crime. Criminals, by and large, are lazy and opportunistic. The best protection from crime is through deterrence, not defense.

Yes, there is going to be a portion of bad guys who don't care about the gun on your hip and they will do what they are going to do regardless, possibly even targeting you because of it. I believe that the far greater majority of bad guys will be deterred if they KNOW they face armed response instead of it merely being a possibility. Everything I have seen, heard, or read supports this.

I have made the choice that sometimes I am willing to increase my "risk" by some fractional percentage from the dedicated bad guy because I believe the far greater reduced risk from those that would be deterred outweighs it. I'll give a dime to get a dollar so to speak.

These people remember the "dark times" when you practically had to be J. Edgar Hoover to receive a concealed permit. Those of us in this category dont want to see these gains threatened by well-intentioned, but inadequate or unprepared spokesman of "the cause". We have come a long way since then, and the last thing we need is to have more people who may not have the "Johnny Appleseed" powers as you, engaging in potentially heated discourse (with an exposed 1911 on their hip) creating the wrong perception, not the right one.

I certainly don't want to see the gains we've made lost either. My experience has been that there are far more positive examples out there than negative ones. I am by no means "Johnny Appleseed", but there are many folks who are doing good work by pushing the OC cause. Things such as getting local ordinances corrected to reflect state laws, or asserting their rights, even when wrongfully detained or arrested, to force understanding and training on police departments that don't know the laws they are supposed to be enforcing.

These changes aren't being made by the CC crowd, but the rewards are reaped by all. The next time you get outed while you CC bending over or when a gust of wind blows your cover garment and people don't call the cops, or the cops are called but don't show up, thank the people who increased the level of awareness and understanding of the legality regarding carry.

I applaud your salesman's ability to inform and persuade. Problem is, most dont have it. Instead, with increased exposed carry in urban settings, we will have a growing number of incidents of a negative nature.

I disagree, I see the number of positive experiences increasing. Negative experiences tend to be a result of ignorance when faced with a new experience. As people are becoming more aware and informed, that negative reaction to a new is becoming less common.

For those who genuinely have the calling for the bully pulpit, more power to you. But to be effective, please be constantly prepared to engage in effective and competent discourse. How many are really willing and able to take this on, as opposed to simply adopting this as the "other reason" they carry exposed ?

I don't OC if I am not prepared to engage as you suggest. When I OC I have pamphlets with factual information on WA. State law regarding firearms, I am presentable and I behave appropriately (unless you think OC is inappropriate ). Honestly, this is really the only reason I OC infrequently. I am usually in a rush to be somewhere or have others with me who may or may not be up for the possible interruption should there be a learning opportunity or police interaction. When I OC I am generally by myself, in my neighborhood, and on my day off running to the store or doing errands. I'll admit I was nervous the first few times I OC'd into the bank, but no one there (customer or employee) has ever batted an eye or said a word.

I think you'd be surprised how many folks make the effort. Not only in public but by attending council meetings, writing elected officials, testing illegal ordinances, and occasionally having OC get togethers to be visible and draw attention to abuses of authority by agencies who haven't received the appropriate training or are unaware of what is and isn't legal.

well, I don't think we area disagreeing. OC is a viable option, but the idea that if you don't OC you are losing the right is not true. As far as 'training Uncle Sam' gave you to protect your firearm, well, ok. When is the last time you practiced it? As far as the comparision, cops/civilians same/same when it comes to someone taking your gun except cops practice it regularly.

Correct, technically, the right isn't being lost. The point of that quote is more metaphorical. If you have a right and don't use it, what is the point? When it goes unused, some people get shocked if you decide to use it. That is on them, not on me. Keeping people "desensitized" to it lessens the problems when you decide to use it.

The cops/civilians comparison is same/same only in that once the fight is on, the fight is on. Where it is different is as I stated, a much greater potential for them than "us" and a much different burden on them as far as what is "allowable". I guess it is also the same in another regard, that you have some advance notice there may be a problem. I've never heard of a cop or civilian just standing on the corner minding their own business and have someone without warning acting all normal on moment and going heck-bent for leather the next. Awareness is important whether you OC, CC, or are unarmed. Look at the people around you in the course of a day, you'll be surprised how many are in their own little world and have no clue what is going on around them.

Yes, I am sure they practice it more frequently than I do. Yes, I am sure they would respond much more proficiently than I would. I am pretty confident though that I practice more frequently than the bad guys I am most likely to come in contact with do. I also have the option of walking away from volatile situations that they don't.


My final words on this..

The majority of folks may be against OC, that is fine. It is a right, not a popularity contest. I agree, the loud boisterous fool does all of us a disservice. I try not to judge people or groups by the actions of a minority of their members.

Time and place are certainly a factor, but I don't believe an urban environment is off-limits. I live in the Everett area (north of Seattle) and my experience and observation has been that in the last couple of years, OC is growing in acceptance.

Even in Seattle proper, liberal mecca that it is, a majority of folks trounced the mayor for his anti-gun agenda. Seattle Police and the King County Sheriff's Office have stellar reputations in handling people who OC. It seems to me the public, even in urban areas, is becoming more aware and accepting of OC as the word gets out.

OC certainly isn't for everyone, just as CC or even gun ownership at all. I just would like to see the disdain for OC in general from others in the gun community go away. You want to call the mall ninja out for his ridiculous behavior? Hey, I am all for it and I got your back. But recognize he is just one person and it is the noisemakers that get the attention.

 

[rupey7]

Perhaps this has been done before but, has anyone discussed having an "Open Carry Day" where we all exercise our open carry rights? I think it would bring to the surface the fact that this IS a right and would make it less surprising when observed in public. Certainly it would get press (whether that is good or bad).

Just a thought.

Good to meet you today at the Longview Show Coctailer

 

[LoneRider]

Perhaps this has been done before but, has anyone discussed having an "Open Carry Day" where we all exercise our open carry rights? I think it would bring to the surface the fact that this IS a right and would make it less surprising when observed in public. Certainly it would get press (whether that is good or bad).

Just a thought.

Good to meet you today at the Longview Show Coctailer

Happens quite regularly actually...

<broken link removed>

I am the first to admit there are a few lunatics and trolls on the above forum, but this is after all the internet...

 

[Benny503]

HD corporate policy is not against OC, read the post where the OP got a reply. The person at the store made a mistake. Don't boycott HD for the improper action of one of the employees.

LoneRider, thanks for pointing that out.

 

[rupey7]

Thanks for the link as there was some good reading there.

 

[jordanvraptor]

I suppose you could get an armed security license and a uniform with badge etc. Even armed, most people would either figure you work for wherever you happen to be or just running errands while on a break.

I'm kidding, but it would probably work...

 

[Contract_Pilot]

I called the H-D last week, I got a call back Saturday afternoon, I was given an apology and was told that someone complained and said they felt uncomfortable that a man was walking around the store with a big assault gun..

They told me their employees over reacted and have been instructed not to do it in the future. they don't mind OC or CC The store policy states that employees are not allowed to carry OC or CC which clarification letter has been sent to their loss prevention team.

I appreciate the apology maybe they will get my future business now.

 

[Searcher451]

Well, that's good to know. It's also not a great surprise; too often employees will overreact to a situation or to a customer's complaint, especially if it's a loudly made complaint. But I'm still amazed that the store was able to produce three security types to deal wtih the situation at the drop of a complaint.

 

[Hawaiian]

I have a Oregon CHL. I carry concealed. I can not understand why anyone would carry open and draw attention to the fact that they are armed. If there is a reason you can not be granted a CHL, then that raises other questions that I won't go into here.
I also have no desire to freak out the other shopers. They don't know that open carry is legal. I did not even know that when I first got my CHL. I belive that if we want to preserve our right to carry, we should have some respect for the general public that does not understand our current 2nd ammendment rights. Don't throw something in their face that they don't understand. Educate them with information first.

The recent open carry at events where the President was at did a lot more harm to our shared cause than it did to preserve our rights.

I have only lived in Oregon for seven years, but I have never seen anyone open carry. And if I did, I would question why???????

 

[Weathermaker]

Regarding LEO's. I have never known a LEO that open carries when off duty and wearing civilian clothes.

I have seen LEO's, who wear civilian clothes on duty, carry while not wearing a coat...hot weather or sitting in a restaurant with their coats off. But, their badges are always displayed.

Worth thinking about.

 

[Dogface]

Regarding LEO's. I have never known a LEO that open carries when off duty and wearing civilian clothes.

My neighbor's LE and we get along fine. But he's a bit intimidated by my dogs and sometimes carries a revolver in plain sight when walking his dog by my house. Not to argue, just saying... There is a time and a place.

Like others have said, I open carry when there is a purpose ie headed to the shooting range or hunting etc.

 

[Oohrah]

Weathermaker your observations are correct in that the badge is worn, under those circumstances, and next to the weapon. Open carry with out that ID sometimes causes a situational type circumstance that makes people uncomfortable, and some will always make an issue out of it. Improper carry by LEOs can also make your unknown brothers uncomfortable. Pro and cons on CHLs being included in DMV are on traffic stops, the Officer knows there is most likely a firearm in the car. Open carry might put him on a different level of alert, and a possible delay by questions. The thing to start off with, even though it is deemed a right is that there is no way to know what level of training you might have. At least the CHL will give the very minimum of safety, and your obligations of use of that firearm.

 

[Gunner3456]

Wow. Some really idiotic comments have been posted; ranging from homosexual 'rights' to 'Home Depot be dammed'. Here is the skinny on the subject. First of all if the Home Depot does not want your business while carrying a weapon openly then DON'T GIVE IT TO THEM. Hate to tell you but they have a right to set their business policy (this is not Russia; but we are heading that way). If you disagree then open your own 'big box' hardware store. Secondly, consider the tactical angle. As my old man would say: "You don't wear your dick on your forehead". Sure you have the right to carry openly at the hardware store. What happens when some punk smacks you on the head from behind with a 2x4 and takes away your heater? Won't happen to me you say? Willing to bet your life on it? I want every advantage when I am armed; it is just common sense.

My, how tactful.

 

[Gunner3456]

Gunner 3456: The truth hurts after all. Keep your tact, I will concentrate on keeping my hide intact.

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out how calling other people's comments "idiotic" and coming across as a know-it-all in all caps helps you to keep your "hide intact."

Oh well, to each his own...

 

[SonicBlue03]

For the OP a question: if Hope Depot had not asked you to leave but instead to conceal your firearm for the comfort of their other patrons, what would your response have been?

 

[freak]

I CC in Oregon and have a CHL. Only OC if I have no way to conceal. I see nothing worng with OC, as long as the person OC'ing does so in a way to show the sheepeople that good guys with guns is good. Opencarry.org has alot of good info for OC and CC. Most in OR that OC have a CHL. This is due to some cities not allowing loaded OC. If you have a CHL then you can OC loaded, every where you can also CC.

www.oregonconcealedcarry.com is another great site.

 

[ohsocountry1]

Im just about to get my concealed and i am doing everything i can to learn the laws i think if ou want people to be ok with open carry teach them learn the laws you know people were listening when you were approached so thats when you need to say its is my right to carry a firerm (and if you have your concealed) say i have had my background checked and i am in the clear to carry a firearm. it is for protection and not my intent to scare anybody. I am 23 and i swear i have a more rational mind then most lol but mayb not

 

[Wenis]

I never understood why gangsters don't open carry instead of getting busted for concealed carry