OMG! The hysteria has already started

[ob1]

If Psych exams comfort you as an answer. I say everyone in the BGC Data Base need comply.
I have no problem taking the exam. YMMV

Oh but you should. At the end of the day, you may take all the MMPI etc. tests you can stand, but there still will be a judgment call by a professional. A human with preconceptions, attitudes and biases just like anyone else. This is where it would break down.
Kind of like the polygraph not being allowed as evidence in court. Not a foolproof technique, especially when dealing with someone's due process rights. But great for harassing deadbeats on the "Maury" show.

 

[bbbass]

Ok if restrictions and commons sense laws are not the answer what is? Haven't hear one sing argument that has any kind of solution to helping stop the violence. But hey Trump made it easier for individuals that have to have assistance in living basic functions to own firearms and this is ok?

There isn't an answer. Never will be.

YES!!!

 

[bbbass]

Not even close. As the sometimes staff of the ED psych section I am familiar with how it works in a broad manner, but there are so many things wrong with the generalizations here that I should just shake my head. Instead I am going to sketch out some of the basics. This is quick and dirty and may not include all intricacies of the law.

Let's say you are suicidal, truly suicidal, you end up in a locked section of the ED and you meet me, then you meet an ER Doc, (not a resident, btw) If the doc or social worker or me(the nurse) has evidence to believe you are suicidal, generally we talk and you get put on a two physician hold if you were sober. (If not sober, you are held till sober and re-evaluated.)These last up to 5 business days and the county sends an investigator. The investigator interviews the patients and frequently talks to the staff to get our observations of patient behavior. Their are 3 options there. Hold dropped, 14 day diversion or commitment hearing. Commitments frequently end up with a 6 month or more stay at the state hospital.

I could go on, but there is a lot of stuff you don't see in mental health. And I agree we need to expand the number of residential psych beds.

I quite agree. But other than the need for more psych beds, the only experience I have with this is my dad, and a gal my wife befriended... my dad attempted suicide and was put on an involuntary 14day hold. He had a psych doc assigned to him and was very unhappy with the whole process. I was able to talk to his doc and illuminate some of what was going on. Had my dad move away from my mom, and move in with me. Everything was good from then until he passed. I have a number of guns in my house and that was never a concern with him.

The gal my wife befriended was able to secure her release from the facility in Pendleton. She was a long term committed due to schiz. Once off the heavy psych drugs she did ok. Was very very smart and high functioning. But she started to drink alcohol, and that was her downfall. We could see her deterioration as she started to become manic, and then delusional. I wouldn't have let her around any firearm or even a sharp knife or matches. It ended with her getting reported for running around naked and going on a merry car chase with the local LEOs. We went to fetch her some clothes and the brand new house she was living in was a nasty mess. Never again to befriend someone with that kind of history!! No guns for former long term committed!!!

Oh, I forgot... my brother's wife him put on a hold, twice!! Marital sabotage!!! Reported him to her LEO brother because he accused her of having an affair with one of her college students. Called him delusional. Said she was worried for her own safety because he yelled at her. Now no guns for him.

 

[EPS]

Did you go back and see the sell price lol $2.600

 

[Hop Sing]

Way too slippery. It looks like the NRA is going to cave in to the tantrum throwing anti-gunners. I heard the plan is to trade for national concealed carry reciprocity.

Thoughts?

I don't know any details about this but I sure am for nation-wide CCL reciprocity!

 

[Hop Sing]

The guy was an airplane pilot, don't they get scrutinized for mental fitness at their annual physicals?

It's been a long time since I was in flight school but I know that if you are on medications for mental issues (depression, anxiety, etc.) you can't get a regular pilot's license. You can get a sport pilot's license, which has a lot of restrictions on what kind of plane you can fly, visual flight only (no instrument flying), and number of passengers. As to a formal mental evaluation, I don't know.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

This sounds very similar to what is done now, though I guarantee you nightmarish things happened in "treatment." (Because of where knowledge of mental health treatment was at that time.) It also sounds like you have an idealized view of it. Were their people who didn't belong there? almost certainly. What about when you have someone blatantly lying about a slightly eccentric person? It happens. Schizophrenics and people with psychosis are frequently nice, kind, gentle people. I deal with them almost every day. It is only the very rare one I can't get along with. Now don't get me wrong I give forced IMs, and have tackled/pried people off of other people and done all manner of things that are rather unpleasant.

It sounds the system has changed to give a few more safeguards, but not as substantially as you seem to think. I say that as a current employee of a psych facility.

If you go to the OSH museum there are mentions of all manner of legit horrors that occurred that are acknowledged. But let me tell you what I have heard coworkers tell me that they did in those days. This is not hearsay, this is what people have told me they did 20-40 years ago. And why I thank God I work in an era we are all on camera in the psych ward.
1) Use a literal ball and chain as a punishment. (Patients have told me about this one as well.)
2) Body check people.
3) Give forced medications to people they didn't like for rudeness.
4) Beat patients for being too loud.
5) Use unnecessary violence for fun.
6) Shock therapy for punishment.

It's interesting that you say, "This is not hearsay, this is what people have told me they did 20-40 years ago." That would be the very definition of hearsay. I worked in the system 50 year ago, and not only didn't I see such things, I didn't even hear about them having happened. Everything was charted and everything in the way of treatment had to be approved by an MD (staff psychiatrist). That stuff makes a good movie plot, but it was not policy or even possible (except under very rare circumstances). Go back far enough, to the ages before psychoactive drugs and yes, some of those things did happen. There were at one time lobotomies and other draconian treatments performed, and I have seen electro-shock therapy used first hand. But the electro-shock therapy I saw was used in the sincere belief that it was the best treatment for the patient and his symptoms, and in many cases it actually worked to improve the situation when nothing else seemed to.

Psychiatric patients' overuse of and boarding in emergency rooms are symptoms of a lack of appropriate care stemming from a severe crisis in the mental health system. Beginning in the 1960s, the deinstitutionalization movement resulted in a decrease in the number of inpatient and residential psychiatric beds in state and county mental hospitals. The number of beds nationwide dropped from approximately 400,000 in 1970 to 50,000 in 2006. <broken link removed>

The Community Mental Health Centers Act of 1963 was intended to create a mental health center in every community to serve those who had been moved out of institutions. But this vision was never adequately funded or fully realized.4

This initial failure to create a robust community mental health system has been compounded by several factors, leading to severe constraints on the capacity of community-based mental health care. Total state spending on mental health services was 30 percent less in 1997 than in 1955, when adjusted for population growth and inflation. The growth of managed behavioral health care and its use of strict medical management techniques has resulted in poorer access to care in the community, increasing the likelihood of mental health crises and the use of emergency room care.5 A number of states that have enrolled people with disabilities in Medicaid managed care have cut back or denied coverage for high-cost antipsychotic drugs. Low reimbursement rates for behavioral health services under Medicaid and Medicare have further discouraged the provision of such services in the community. Some experts and commentators have even warned of a "wholesale collapse" of today's mental health system.6–8


A Plan To Reduce Emergency Room 'Boarding' Of Psychiatric Patients

"...increasing the likelihood of mental health crises...", like going on a shooting rampage.

 

[defending fathers 1787]

I'm assuming your asking if I'm in collusion with the left? Another pointless comment, no I am not. But I have grown tired of the mass killings. How about you explain your points of view to the hundred of people that have been killed over the years.
My main point is we need to do something! this need to stop. Stock pilling ammo and waiting for the world to collapse while clinching your guns is not going to help anybody. You can sit at home and say not my 2-A but what are you really doing watching the world die from a safe distance? People need more compassion for their fellow Americans and if you have to give up some pointless bump stop to do so then so be it your will get over it. Besides its the right that will be doing it now. Just wait till election time comes up.

Simple devices are difficult to regulate . You can bump fire with your thumb and belt loop

 

[EPS]

Yea, they want us ashed.
All guns are the goal. Look the poor people in Warsaw.

Poor people in Warsaw hell look at the poor people in Chicago the money and loop holes you have to pay to get a gun make it almost impossible for a law-abiding person to get one for self defense but yet every day some scumbag has a gun using it in crime and killing people because he doesn't bother with the laws

 

[rdb241]

For the month of September. Chicago had 58 deaths do to gun crimes. With 273 shot and wounded. For the beginning of the month of October. 7 days in, 11 deaths by gun and 51 wound by gun. Year to date for the city of Chicago. 506 deaths by gun and 2,427 wounded by gun. Total shot year to date. 2,933. Gun control really works huh? Chicago is a gun free zone.........which is BS anyway!
HeyJackass!

 

[DAPSRT]

They are talking an outright ban. Sales and possession. and no grandfather clause.

I think if I owned one of those and was required to dispose of it I would consider that the government is taking my property and require fair compensation.

 

[rdb241]

I think if I owned one of those and was required to dispose of it I would consider that the government is taking my property and require fair compensation.

Yeah good luck with that. Do you know what a certificate of abandinment is?

 

[DAPSRT]

Yeah good luck with that. Do you know what a certificate of abandinment is?

Oh I know its a pipe dream... not a clue what a cert of abandonment is .... do tell...

 

[rdb241]

that is what the ATF makes you sign when they take your stuff...

 

[Popwood]

Honest question: If you get one,, put it on your AR,(Or?) does thsat make the rifle an illegal "automatic" weapon?

 

[rdb241]

No

 

[EPS]

Honest question: If you get one,, put it on your AR,(Or?) does thsat make the rifle an illegal "automatic" weapon?

RIGHT now no there not illegal YET yet is the key word here

 

[Popwood]

No

Thank you.

 

[Popwood]

Thank you. The "yet" is an important qualifier.

 

[rdb241]