- Messages
- 8,928
- Reactions
- 31,523
Let's keep the dialogue about the facts or your opinions, personal barbs will get this thread closed.
Be excellent to each other.
Be excellent to each other.
JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
- Messages
- 2,633
- Reactions
- 4,004
Some of that improvement will be the action settling into the stock, uneven stock screw stresses evening out and other non-barrel related issues. My opinion is that with high end barreled rifles most of that improvement you are seeing (and I've seen too) is non-barrel related.
Ok, so in writing. If the barrel isn't broken in per THAT manufacturer's instructions then what? You already admitted you don't follow the manufacturer's instructions. You follow your own arcane procedure. Are you admitting your barrels are sub-optimally broken in?
Do you break in your customer's barrels? Do you provide that barrel manufacturer's instructions?
If you don't follow their instructions you'll never know the TRUE POTENTIAL of your barrel....
Try not to let it keep you up at night.....
- Messages
- 455
- Reactions
- 1,103
My procedure of 1 shot 1 cleaning 5 times, then 3 shots and clean for 5 times while watching for the groups to tighten is right with the barrel makers procedures...so I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Sounds pretty ad-hoc to me. Every manufacturer you and others have linked have a different procedure with regard to the number of rounds and when to clean.
Don't forget the cleaning, this is where the magic occurs.
- Messages
- 11,081
- Reactions
- 50,429
Last warning guys! This thread has been a good one and we all have our opinions. That is just it opinions.
Keep it civil or its closed period.
Keep it civil or its closed period.
- Messages
- 2,716
- Reactions
- 5,804
Wow opinions are like a$$holes everyone has one. Barrel break in? If your blasting beer cans
in the woods or blasting away like a Ninja operator barrel brake in is a joke. Different disciplines
have developed over many years of competition as to what works and what does not. Action rifle,
precision rifle, Bench rest, Highpower Rifle disciplines very greatly in accuracy requirements. I form
an opinion from my experience and what I learn from much better shooters than me. Yes I break in a
barrel clean and shoot. Anyway holding the X ring at 600 yards from the prone position is what
my discipline is about.
in the woods or blasting away like a Ninja operator barrel brake in is a joke. Different disciplines
have developed over many years of competition as to what works and what does not. Action rifle,
precision rifle, Bench rest, Highpower Rifle disciplines very greatly in accuracy requirements. I form
an opinion from my experience and what I learn from much better shooters than me. Yes I break in a
barrel clean and shoot.
Anyway holding the X ring at 600 yards from the prone position is whatmy discipline is about.
- Messages
- 1,714
- Reactions
- 3,041
OK, I wasn't going to jump into this, but I just can't help myself. In all of the years of shooting that I have done, I have never broken in a barrel. Just for SAG, I asked about the break-in procedure for my new VTR, wanting to get the best out of blowing up varmints with a .308. I realize that a .308 isn't the best target round made, but it does do pretty well if I do my part.
I called the manufacturer and asked - he sent me instructions on how to break the barrel in (using their compounds). It was not simply cleaning, but removing copper fouling and smoothing burs gently and slowly without removing too much barrel in the process. So, the gun sits in my safe until I can find time to break it in.
I called the manufacturer and asked - he sent me instructions on how to break the barrel in (using their compounds). It was not simply cleaning, but removing copper fouling and smoothing burs gently and slowly without removing too much barrel in the process. So, the gun sits in my safe until I can find time to break it in.
OK, I wasn't going to jump into this, but I just can't help myself. In all of the years of shooting that I have done, I have never broken in a barrel. Just for SAG, I asked about the break-in procedure for my new VTR, wanting to get the best out of blowing up varmints with a .308. I realize that a .308 isn't the best target round made, but it does do pretty well if I do my part.
I called the manufacturer and asked - he sent me instructions on how to break the barrel in (using their compounds). It was not simply cleaning, but removing copper fouling and smoothing burs gently and slowly without removing too much barrel in the process. So, the gun sits in my safe until I can find time to break it in.
Compounds? Wow, that seems like a lot of work. When do you actually get to enjoy the darned thing?
- Messages
- 11,081
- Reactions
- 50,429
So basically if you don't follow those instructions then they won't warranty the rifle but its a waste of time. Gotcha that all makes sense now.
- Messages
- 8,928
- Reactions
- 31,523
Just send it to me, I will properly break it in and after throughly testing it I shall return it...deal?OK, I wasn't going to jump into this, but I just can't help myself. In all of the years of shooting that I have done, I have never broken in a barrel. Just for SAG, I asked about the break-in procedure for my new VTR, wanting to get the best out of blowing up varmints with a .308. I realize that a .308 isn't the best target round made, but it does do pretty well if I do my part.
I called the manufacturer and asked - he sent me instructions on how to break the barrel in (using their compounds). It was not simply cleaning, but removing copper fouling and smoothing burs gently and slowly without removing too much barrel in the process. So, the gun sits in my safe until I can find time to break it in.
OK, I wasn't going to jump into this, but I just can't help myself. In all of the years of shooting that I have done, I have never broken in a barrel. Just for SAG, I asked about the break-in procedure for my new VTR, wanting to get the best out of blowing up varmints with a .308. I realize that a .308 isn't the best target round made, but it does do pretty well if I do my part.
I called the manufacturer and asked - he sent me instructions on how to break the barrel in (using their compounds). It was not simply cleaning, but removing copper fouling and smoothing burs gently and slowly without removing too much barrel in the process. So, the gun sits in my safe until I can find time to break it in.
Send it back and tell them they didn't finish the job. If you wanted a gun 90% done they should have only charged you 90%
Or, just go run 20 rounds through it and start load workup after that
- Messages
- 1,714
- Reactions
- 3,041
It was more satire than anything, but I am getting close to taking it out and putting a box through it.Send it back and tell them they didn't finish the job. If you wanted a gun 90% done they should have only charged you 90%
Or, just go run 20 rounds through it and start load workup after that
- Messages
- 11,081
- Reactions
- 50,429
- Messages
- 1,714
- Reactions
- 3,041
I will have to find the instructions and post them. It sort of made sense, but a little voice in the back of my head was screaming - REALLY?
- Messages
- 20,338
- Reactions
- 77,129
Any one here ever heard of David Tubb?
Any one here ever seen him shoot, or listen to his words of wisdom on the art or precision shooting?
Any one here ever try his brand of break in bullets?
They are frangable and have a lapping compound embedded in them that purports to fire lap a barrel in less then 30 rounds! We tried them in a Remington .243 and it was a lights out tack driver once we worked out all the other kinks! The barrel was less then perfect despite the shooter doing the break in correctly as the manufacture recommended!
All this is to say that some benifit can be had in certain cases, where others shouldn't/wouldn't need this kind of work!
Any one here ever seen him shoot, or listen to his words of wisdom on the art or precision shooting?
Any one here ever try his brand of break in bullets?
They are frangable and have a lapping compound embedded in them that purports to fire lap a barrel in less then 30 rounds! We tried them in a Remington .243 and it was a lights out tack driver once we worked out all the other kinks! The barrel was less then perfect despite the shooter doing the break in correctly as the manufacture recommended!
All this is to say that some benifit can be had in certain cases, where others shouldn't/wouldn't need this kind of work!
- Messages
- 4,919
- Reactions
- 12,974
From PacNor:
"Chris recommends:
Shoot one, clean, for first ten rounds; shoot three, clean, for next thirty rounds; shoot five, clean, while working up load. Allow bbl to cool to the touch before testing a new load to avoid unnecessary throat erosion."
This is the kind of old-school ritualistic regimen that I remember being taught, and what I carefully did one time for a .270 that never shot worth a darn. Years later I asked a bench-rest guy I met at the range about it and he laughed. As I recall he just said something about that regimen being way over the top to the point of silly, and that the reason my rifle never shot well was likely because it just never had that potential to begin with. I've heard it recommended several times that a simpler break-in process can be advantageous, so I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
A lot of the argument in this thread is an interesting study in logic and debate. To be honest, some of the arguments brought forth as solid and definitive really have no true weight in a logical debate. So this over-the-top regimen that includes hours upon hours of cleaning has been around for a hundred years, and has been part of the ritual for long enough that it's in all the books and has been preached as gospel? All that proves to me is that it's an entrenched idea, not necessarily that it has any real merit.
It certainly doesn't disprove it either. On the contrary, it's always best to pay close attention to these old rituals because more often than not they have a strong basis in reality. I have heard and read enough about this one, though, from serious competitors and barrel experts, to lead me to seriously question the necessity of the long, drawn out cleaning regimen, when a simpler one might be just as effective. I've heard too many credible people say that the old 30+ cleaning first day ritual is just that, a ritual that is perpetuated over the years because it is what is expected, and that it's really a lot more than is necessary.
Can that be proven? If you always carefully use the old regimen and unknowingly cleaned a barrel 20 times more than necessary, it'll probably shoot great and you'll be convinced that the process worked. However, no amount of bragging about your prowess in marksmanship is actual proof that it was the extra 20 cleanings that did the trick. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but you can't prove it. On the other hand, the guy would uses a much simpler break-in and shoots just as good has a pretty good argument that maybe it's not so critical. Those guys do exist. There are world-class marksmen who don't adhere to the old ritual. But then again maybe they'd be even better if they did; there's always that argument...
This is all academic to me, though. Like I said before, I don't have the time and means to ever be a serious competitor. I don't see myself ever buying a barrel of the quality that would benefit from the cleaning regimen even if it is effective. I've been involved in this thread only because I find it interesting. I hope I haven't offended anyone with anything I've said. If I have, I apologize.
"Chris recommends:
Shoot one, clean, for first ten rounds; shoot three, clean, for next thirty rounds; shoot five, clean, while working up load. Allow bbl to cool to the touch before testing a new load to avoid unnecessary throat erosion."
This is the kind of old-school ritualistic regimen that I remember being taught, and what I carefully did one time for a .270 that never shot worth a darn. Years later I asked a bench-rest guy I met at the range about it and he laughed. As I recall he just said something about that regimen being way over the top to the point of silly, and that the reason my rifle never shot well was likely because it just never had that potential to begin with. I've heard it recommended several times that a simpler break-in process can be advantageous, so I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
A lot of the argument in this thread is an interesting study in logic and debate. To be honest, some of the arguments brought forth as solid and definitive really have no true weight in a logical debate. So this over-the-top regimen that includes hours upon hours of cleaning has been around for a hundred years, and has been part of the ritual for long enough that it's in all the books and has been preached as gospel? All that proves to me is that it's an entrenched idea, not necessarily that it has any real merit.
It certainly doesn't disprove it either. On the contrary, it's always best to pay close attention to these old rituals because more often than not they have a strong basis in reality. I have heard and read enough about this one, though, from serious competitors and barrel experts, to lead me to seriously question the necessity of the long, drawn out cleaning regimen, when a simpler one might be just as effective. I've heard too many credible people say that the old 30+ cleaning first day ritual is just that, a ritual that is perpetuated over the years because it is what is expected, and that it's really a lot more than is necessary.
Can that be proven? If you always carefully use the old regimen and unknowingly cleaned a barrel 20 times more than necessary, it'll probably shoot great and you'll be convinced that the process worked. However, no amount of bragging about your prowess in marksmanship is actual proof that it was the extra 20 cleanings that did the trick. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but you can't prove it. On the other hand, the guy would uses a much simpler break-in and shoots just as good has a pretty good argument that maybe it's not so critical. Those guys do exist. There are world-class marksmen who don't adhere to the old ritual. But then again maybe they'd be even better if they did; there's always that argument...
This is all academic to me, though. Like I said before, I don't have the time and means to ever be a serious competitor. I don't see myself ever buying a barrel of the quality that would benefit from the cleaning regimen even if it is effective. I've been involved in this thread only because I find it interesting. I hope I haven't offended anyone with anything I've said. If I have, I apologize.
- Messages
- 3,862
- Reactions
- 10,317
- Messages
- 2,716
- Reactions
- 5,804
David Tubb is arguably the best, and winningest, competitive rifleman in history. He has won (to date) a record eleven NRA National High Power Rifle Championship titles at Camp Perry, Ohio. That's four more than next best. In addition, David is an NRA Silhouette Rifle legend, having won nearly 30 open, individual National Championship titles in all four rifle categories. David has also won seven Sportsmen's Team Challenge Championships along with six NRA Long Range Rifle (600-1000 yd.) National Championships, including his latest win in 2011 during which he also won his second Wimbledon Cup.
Tubb final finish bullets for barrel break in.
What does this guy know anyway @Kruel J ?I had a used Bushmaster Service Rifle that shot +1" groups at 100 yards. Not to good. I
used JB bore paste to smooth the bore just forward of the throat. I could initially feel a rough
spot just ahead of the throat. The JB bore paste notably smoothed up this spot. The
rifle than shot sub 1/2 " groups. I learned about JB bore paste from the break in instructions
that came with my new Krieger barrel many years ago.
Upcoming Events
New Classified Ads
-
-
-
Remington 760 Gamemaster 30-06 w/ Bushnell Scope
- Started by Blackhammer
- Replies: 0
-
AR-15, AR-10, and AKM parts and accessories SALE! MANY PHOTOS!- Started by SpaghettiToss
- Replies: 1
-
Montana Rifle Company Model 1999 300 Win Mag w/ Zeiss Scope
- Started by Blackhammer
- Replies: 0
-
-
-
-
AC Unity 40 round mags for HK MP5 and clones- Started by Fuji
- Replies: 0
-
