New Rifle Barrel Break-in for Accuracy?

[Geardo]

Which doesn't require a break in period!

I mean, I had to learn how to not shoot my groups in 3 shots.....

 

[Mooseman]

If you are shooting 100 rds through hunting or target rifles, you are blowing tons of $$$ over time. Why not buy 2 identical Ballistic advantage barrel on sale for like $100 and test both out of the box, then "break" one in and see if groups improve. Shoot the same amount of rounds out of the other to keep things fair.

If you can disprove it to yourself you will save a ton of $$ in ammo in the long run.

I shoot THOUSANDS of rounds of ammo and I load about 40 + different Cartridges. I'm not "Blowing " anything !
I have already done the tests and proven that proper barrel break in increases accuracy and reduces fouling and as such reduces wear.
I win shooting Matches , I kill what I shoot at while hunting, and I have my own shooting range . the cost of ammo is chump change compared to the cost of the guns and scopes and accessories I own.
100 rounds for target practice per gun is about average for me.

 

[DLS]

Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like part of the problem begins with the manufacturer over boring or is it something occurring through a custom design?

It's not really a problem. It's a condition of creating high-intensity cartridges. Just like a racing car … you expect items to wear out faster because you are pushing them harder.

So, back in the day when rounds like the 6.5 mentioned earlier were used in long-range competition the competitor knew that they could be swapping barrels more often to gain the high levels of performance.

 

[Geardo]

I shoot THOUSANDS of rounds of ammo and I load about 40 + different Cartridges. I'm not "Blowing " anything !
I have already done the tests and proven that proper barrel break in increases accuracy and reduces fouling and as such reduces wear.
I win shooting Matches , I kill what I shoot at while hunting, and I have my own shooting range . the cost of ammo is chump change compared to the cost of the guns and scopes and accessories I own.
100 rounds for target practice per gun is about average for me.

You do you then man.

 

[Dwesson]

@G8rHunter

This entire discussion is moot if you're talking a lever action 30-30 and an off shelf 10/22

I shoot THOUSANDS of rounds of ammo and I load about 40 + different Cartridges. I'm not "Blowing " anything !
I have already done the tests and proven that proper barrel break in increases accuracy and reduces fouling and as such reduces wear.
I win shooting Matches , I kill what I shoot at while hunting, and I have my own shooting range . the cost of ammo is chump change compared to the cost of the guns and scopes and accessories I own.
100 rounds for target practice per gun is about average for me.

If you can share the tests with us, that would be super beneficial to the conversation at hand.

 

[CLT65]

I'm not sure where the "100 rounds" to break in a barrel came from , sometimes it takes only 10 rounds on a precision barrel to tighten the group , sometimes 25-50 rounds.

I'm wondering if we might be arguing apples and oranges here? It seems that some hold to the old ritualistic hundred round procedure, whereas others say no break-in at all.

What I was hearing and reading from the barrel experts linked to was that a fairly minimal, individualized break-in is often beneficial, like you seem to be saying here? I'm not sure our perspectives are so far apart, really.

 

[Geardo]

I'm wondering if we might be arguing apples and oranges here? It seems that some hold to the old ritualistic hundred round procedure, whereas others say no break-in at all.

What I was hearing and reading from the barrel experts linked to was that a fairly minimal, individualized break-in is often beneficial, like you seem to be saying here? I'm not sure our perspectives are so far apart, really.

This is kind of where I am at. I could see maybe macro sized burrs or bits of rocksett (if sloppy like me) at say the gas block port getting nocked off, and it being beneficial to clean those out. But that should happen in the first few rounds. Besides doing a 5 or 10 round "break in" is not that much of an inconvinience. A sort of better safe than sorry type deal.

However I am too cheap, lazy, and rushed to ever do it.

 

[DLS]

Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like part of the problem begins with the manufacturer over boring or is it something occurring through a custom design?

I should probably also mention that the term "over-bore" is not a precisely defined term. It's jargon for taking a normally balanced cartridge (this in a vague term as well) and amping up the power by increasing case size (in relation to the bore size) over what would be a standard size.

Take a look at a .30-06 cartridge for instance. I'm betting most folks would say this is a pretty well balanced cartridge, meaning the case capacity compared to the bore size match well. By "match well" I mean there is enough case capacity to get reasonable velocities at an efficient size of powder charge.

Now look at the .30-378 Weatherby. We have the same bore size as the venerable '06 but the case is massive in comparison. This is a classic example of "over-bore", in fact the entire Weatherby Magnum line of cartridges are "over-bored" by design.

So while a standard '06 pushes a 150 grain bullet around 2800 FPS using around 55 grains of power the WM will generate around 3400 FPS but will burn a bit over 100 grains of powder to do this.

So you get around 21% increase in velocity but you need to burn around 90% more powder to do this. So while the WM gives you an additional 400 FPS, it's not very efficient in accomplishing this gain.

This added powder charge increases recoil, pressure and flame temperatures. So it stresses the barrel and action more upon shooting , resulting in less life. Is this a bad thing? It depends on what your goals are. If you really need the additional velocity and understand the cost in achieving it … then go for it! If not then it's a waste.

Ain't life cool … we got choices man!

 

[pharmseller]

However I am too cheap, lazy, and rushed to ever do it.

Pigs or pork, dude.

Cheap I get, but lazy people are never rushed. It's sort of the definition, man.



P

 

[Mooseman]

@G8rHunter

This entire discussion is moot if you're talking a lever action 30-30 and an off shelf 10/22



If you can share the tests with us, that would be super beneficial to the conversation at hand.

I have verbally shared the test results that we performed back in the late 70's / early 80's and i have also shown
pics of a recent match Target that scored 100-6x with a properly broke in .22LR barrel. (Somebody said .22 was Not accurate in an earlier post, and I had a good laugh !) I will post results of my latest 22-250 rifle build. It has fired 1 round as a test fire after assembly, and i will be counting rounds as I proceed to break it in and get it sighted.
Like the old saying... "you can lead a horse to water hut you can't make em drink" the same applies here.
Me, Bartlein, Lilja, Browning, Larry Potterfield ,and many others including Competition shooters all follow a break in procedure , but the monkey is on your back as to whether you want to do it or not.

 

[Dwesson]

I have verbally shared the test results that we performed back in the late 70's / early 80's and i have also shown
pics of a recent match Target that scored 100-6x with a properly broke in .22LR barrel. (Somebody said .22 was Not accurate in an earlier post, and I had a good laugh !) I will post results of my latest 22-250 rifle build. It has fired 1 round as a test fire after assembly, and i will be counting rounds as I proceed to break it in and get it sighted.
Like the old saying... "you can lead a horse to water hut you can't make em drink" the same applies here.
Me, Bartlein, Lilja, Browning, Larry Potterfield ,and many others including Competition shooters all follow a break in procedure , but the monkey is on your back as to whether you want to do it or not.

And I posted two pics of Bartlein barreled rifles that shoot lights out, in centerfire rifle cartridges.

Last time I checked 2 > 1 so I win?

No, that's not how evidence works. See the claim was made that a "properly broke in rifle" using some procedure of:

1. Shoot A times then clean (A being 1-5, usually)
2. Shoot B times then clean (where B > A)
3. Shoot C times then clean until D total rounds have been fired.

The argument is this procedure produces a barrel that is :

• Faster
• More accurate
• "easier" to clean
• Has increased longevity over the same firing schedule of the barrel's life

So go get your chrono and two barrels, with the same lot of 22LR ammo. Break a barrel in using your procedure, to x total rounds, chuck up the other barrel and shoot the same x rounds. Measure the velocity across 10 rounds after the total and see what's faster.

That's called evidence. Until then you believe what you want and I believe what I want and that's about it.

 

[Mooseman]

To add to the discussion here are some thought provoking questions relating to the question of Copper wearing a bore.
1. Why does a steel pistol get Holster wear from going in and out of soft Leather ?
2. Why does a chamber wear from brass cases going in and out of it ?
3. Why can you get an almost surgical edge on the hardest of knife steels by using an aluminum rod ?

 

[Geardo]

Pigs or pork, dude.

Cheap I get, but lazy people are never rushed. It's sort of the definition, man.



P

Haha. Fair enough. I just meant my shooting time is fairly limited. And I am not a benchrest shooter. I would rather throw the gun on a sandbag, get prone in the mud, rip off shots till I get zeroed, and start running drills.

 

[DLS]

To add to the discussion here are some thought provoking questions relating to the question of Copper wearing a bore.
1. Why does a steel pistol get Holster wear from going in and out of soft Leather ?
2. Why does a chamber wear from brass cases going in and out of it ?
3. Why can you get an almost surgical edge on the hardest of knife steels by using an aluminum rod ?

1. Most holster wear is actually damage from the acids and salts in the holster
2. Because of the very hard carbon deposits that accumulate upon firing. The case acts as a brass lap for the carbon grit
3. Because the aluminum rod is smoothing and bending the micro bur that is left from the abrasives, it's not removing metal except perhaps on a very microscopic level (meaning a few molecules at best).

 

[bbbass]

Just curious, what rifle barrels have a life expectancy of 1,000 rounds?

I don't know about 1000rds, but you can add .22-250, 220Swift, and all the hot loaded Wildcat loads to the list. Well known for short barrel life.

Dang, so a 45-70 will have a shorter barrel life than a much smaller. 22?

Nope. 45-70 is a low velocity round. Originally a black powder round, one of many such as .38Special. As far as I know, it is the super hot gasses of max velocity rounds that wears the barrel so fast. Think of how a cutting torch or a plasma cutter works!

Rereading the thread I see a bunch of posters giving their opinions on the issue. The discussion starts to get a little heated, but still remains primarily as those challenging others' opinions. That is until, a certain poster made it personal and starting calling out other posters as (and I quote) "Armchair Computer Bullshooters"...

^^^THIS^^^

Yes, typical discussion that trends toward insulting to gain an advantage. In hindsight, those who did so probably should have been called out.

And rightly so!!!

It's not a typical discussion on THIS forum.

IMO the term "Armchair Computer Bullshooter" is a pejorative term and as such conveys disrespect. (Note the reference to video game players.) IMO it was the use of that term that caused the thread to go south. I try to resist calling members out anymore because the backlash is usually strong and causes disruption to the forum. However, I did report that post to mods as being uncivil, aggressive, and name-calling, and got nowhere with it. You'll see a lot of passive-agressive posts after that... apparently all falling short of the level that the mods would close the thread. <shrug> But IMO not a really healthy direction for a thread to take, and all precipitated by the use of a pejorative.

 

[G8rHunter]

To add to the discussion here are some thought provoking questions relating to the question of Copper wearing a bore.
1. Why does a steel pistol get Holster wear from going in and out of soft Leather ?
2. Why does a chamber wear from brass cases going in and out of it ?
3. Why can you get an almost surgical edge on the hardest of knife steels by using an aluminum rod ?

So, this sounds like around 50 cartridges, although math is not my forte. Nosler says, if done right, barrel break-in takes the better part of a day. If true, no wonder most want to avoid!

1. Shoot one round and then clean
   Do this for the first ten rounds.
   
2. Shoot three rounds and then clean
   Do this for the next fifteen rounds.
   
3. Shoot five rounds and then clean
   then shoot a fouler round
   and then shoot three rounds for accuracy.

 

[bbbass]

Funny.. the Egyptians cut granite using copper tools !

Actually, they didn't:

How Was Granite Quarried in Ancient Egypt?

Cutting the Granite
"To cut granite, workers cut a series of holes in the granite with a hammer and chisel and inserted wooden wedges. They soaked these with water, which made the wood expand and the rock split. The stone workers then used the chisel again to break the granite apart. The chisel was made of iron, whereas stone cutters could use bronze tools on softer rock like limestone."

 

[Mooseman]

And I posted two pics of Bartlein barreled rifles that shoot lights out, in centerfire rifle cartridges.

Last time I checked 2 > 1 so I win?

No, that's not how evidence works. See the claim was made that a "properly broke in rifle" using some procedure of:

1. Shoot A times then clean (A being 1-5, usually)
2. Shoot B times then clean (where B > A)
3. Shoot C times then clean until D total rounds have been fired.

The argument is this procedure produces a barrel that is :

• Faster
• More accurate
• "easier" to clean
• Has increased longevity over the same firing schedule of the barrel's life

So go get your chrono and two barrels, with the same lot of 22LR ammo. Break a barrel in using your procedure, to x total rounds, chuck up the other barrel and shoot the same x rounds. Measure the velocity across 10 rounds after the total and see what's faster.

That's called evidence. Until then you believe what you want and I believe what I want and that's about it.

Go back and see my post #181.
Its not about Velocity per se , it IS about Accuracy and Consistency shot after shot.
.22LR and other rimfires are the cartridges we shooters have No control over , we rely on the manufacturer , then we weigh each cartridge and sort by weight and rim thickness to increase our CHANCES for that elusive 100-10x score from a factory rifle.
You wont get that kind of score without some amount of break in / seasoning of your bore.
Centerfire is a whole different ballgame with case selection, powder and amount, bullet selection, seating depth, primer used and it gets almost scientific using the ladder load procedure to find the load that bugholes the target bullseye.
You do ladder load to find the optimum accuracy round don't you ?

 

[Bealzybub]

So, to add a couple things here. I believe theres never an end to the testing that each individual will do just the same as there will be no end to everyones difference of opinion. What works for some may or may not work for others. When I've told people about the type of accuracy I want to achieve I quite often hear "Why do you need anything like that?" With statements like "If you can put em all in a pie plate at 100 yards you can kill a "whatever" deer elk etc. And yes, I've pushed a horsefly through the paper albeit at 50 yards with a 22 but I did it. Jeez them things are so big if you can put em all in a pie plate at 100.....................Wait, what?

 

[Mooseman]

So, this sounds like around 50 cartridges, although math is not my forte. Nosler says, if done right, barrel break-in takes the better part of a day. If true, no wonder most want to avoid!

1. Shoot one round and then clean
   Do this for the first ten rounds.
   
2. Shoot three rounds and then clean
   Do this for the next fifteen rounds.
   
3. Shoot five rounds and then clean
   then shoot a fouler round
   and then shoot three rounds for accuracy.

You are shooting the target the whole time you are breaking in a barrel... sometimes you will see the shots tighten up in as few as 10 rounds , again , as i stated, i shoot the first 5 and clean after each, then start my 3 shot and clean, to observe what my barrel is telling me. Lets say shots 12,13, and 14 shoot a clover leaf , I will run a dry patch down the barrel , and start shooting groups from that point.
Shots 15-20 should be a very tight group if the ammo is consistent.