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Need suggestions for Home D Carbine/Rifle

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by Diamondback, Nov 20, 2014.

  1. Diamondback

    Diamondback A cold, wet green Hell Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I'm being paranoid, but between Ferguson, Amnesty for Illegals and I-594, I can't shake the feeling that we have a sh*t-storm about to break on us.

    Anyway, in light of this I'm starting to seriously consider pulling a chunk out of my nest-egg that I was teeing up to invest and divert it into a Home Defense rifle/carbine/shotgun, with spare mags and training ammo.

    Budget is $1500 dead max, in Puget Sound prices. I generally can't use most rifle stocks due to some body-shape issues, so something not highly dependent on a "shoulder pocket" to resist recoil would help. (AK--mind you, not the semi-only civvie toys but this was a Class 2 FFL friend's real-deal Rock-and-Roll version--and 12-gauge alike wrecked my shoulder for a few weeks each, and firing his Thompson the butt was down in my armpit, still yielding pretty good accuracy by tommy-gun standards*.) Personal preference is something like an M1 Carbine, but I am open to AR-platforms.
    *Usually minute of milk-jug, for that session.

    Anyone out there in the Puget Sound area have any advice here? Am I just being skittish, or who should I call and what should I ask for and expect to pay? Mags and ammo I can of course order online for building up after the initial start if it turns out to be "making mountain of molehill," but priority is on getting to Effective Means to Repel Home Invasion ASAP.

    Thanks in advance, guys (and the few gals)! :)
     
  2. Redrum

    Redrum Portlandia Active Member

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    I would think about a Kel-Tec sub2000 in 9mm that takes Glock magazines. for $1500 you could get the gun, 10 mags, 1000 rounds and still have $500 left over. Then you have a small, easily concealable, light to carry, no kick, shoot one handed if you have to, carbine. That takes the most common handgun magazine out there and shoots the most common handgun round.
     
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  3. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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  4. jim97701

    jim97701 Bend Well-Known Member

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    Heck, you could buy 2 of those Hi point 9mm carbines and a crapload of ammo and still have some cash left over. I have an M1 and I love it, but the ammo situation is currently not very good. Hard to find in stock and spendy when you do.
     
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  5. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    With your preference for an M1, how about the Ruger Mini-14 (.223) or Mini-30 (7.62x39)? Both great guns, you can get mags for 10, 20, 30 rounds, the recoil would be less than an M1 and, if you did the Mini-30, you could get plenty of surplus ammo for practice at a decent price. You could have a Mini and a bulk of ammo for just about $1,000. Or get a mid-priced AR, also a great choice and would be easy on the shoulder.

    Ruger_Mini-14.jpg
     
  6. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Buy a $300.00 Rem 870 put a 8 rd mag and 20" barrel on it and be done with it. Unless you want to shoot through your neighbors house while your at it.
     
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  7. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    The 9mm options are good ones but for the money, cost of ammo and available accessories I would go get a pump 20ga and set it up how you like it.

    Pistol grip, adjustable stock, stock/pistol grip combo...

    Ammo can go from bird shot to buck shot or even slugs out to 100 yards.

    You could buy a mossburg or rem 870, set it up and buy 500 rounds for about $500 or so.

    Then spend some of the rest that money practicing with the thing (you can shoot for months and still not go thru $500 in ammo at around $.20 each/ slugs and buck shot are closer to $.50-1.00).

    Don't go overboard and save that cash or invest in other things to be prepared.
     
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  8. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Best to get something you can be trained with, just buying a gun isn't enough.o_O
     
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  9. redmud

    redmud Colombia river Active Member

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  10. concealedhunter

    concealedhunter Tualitan Valley Member

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    What kind of home defense are you concerned about? If you're just looking for a single home invader, the Judge is not a bad option, and neither is one of the many tactical shotguns available. If you're worried about a riot situation, with multiple targets, my vote would lean towards a rapid fire option in a large caliber. The AR platform allows for several kinds of stocks, and you can fire the more effective (in my opinion) .308 or even .50 caliber rounds. The .223 and 5.56 NATO, while easier to shoot, have concerning ballistics in my opinion.
    While I would love to dump some cash in the ideal home defense weapon, I feel pretty comfortable working my 9mm and/or 12ga in home invader and riot scenes because I have practised enough with them.
    For an all around weapon to deal with home defense, I myself would opt for an AR chambered in the larger caliber and laser sights.
     
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  11. Diamondback

    Diamondback A cold, wet green Hell Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, guys--I'm thinking mainly General Purpose, both riot and single-perp to 3-man team--present lean is an AR with frangibles the first few in the mag, backed by JHP's, or possibly a trio of Rem 870 20-gauges so my mother, my aunt and myself can each have our own dedicated HD iron and get around the 594 bullsh-t.

    My go-to, if it helps to know, is a 5" 1911--I know I can't buy skill off a shelf, but I'm looking for a foundation to build on that can be handled intuitively (AR, put front-sight tower center-mass and you're gonna at least hit somewhere in the chest) and give a foundation to build on later if (as I fervently hope and pray) Time Zero doesn't happen this round.
     
  12. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    AR or AK
    (Id go with the AK but thats just me)

    If you want a property defense carbine go with a real intermediate caliber rifle.
    Id skip the pistol caliber carbines, thats what pistols are for.

    "Over penetration" is why you save your rifle for the serious stuff. A pistol with standard capacity will do you just fine.
    A shotgun would be ideal too.
     
  13. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    One round of #4 buck from a 2.75" 12ga shotgun shell distributes 27) .24 caliber round lead balls. That's got to be equal to 20 rds of .223 with one trigger pull. If you want OO buck then you get 9) .33 cal round balls. Those are 54 grains each. Take 9 rounds from a .223 in the chest and your done unless your wearing a vest and if you are you butt is on the floor and your having a real hard time breathing.
     
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  14. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    AR or AK
    (Id go with the AR but that's just me)

    I agree, Rifle round all the way. And much of the "over penetration" is not a huge concern with a fast moving 40- 55 gr bullet. They will come apart as soon as they touch just about anything

    I dont think you should consider a shotgun as a replacement for a rifle. I think you need both a rifle and a shotgun. :D
     
  15. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Exactly, have both.. That way you have tools for any job.
     
  16. Gunguy45

    Gunguy45 Well-Known Member

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    I'm gonna rain on your AR/carbine parade a bit.

    It's been 24 hours since the announcement of the Ferguson debacle, and so far, no riots in Seattle. The people you might need to worry about are such a TINY minority in that town it hardly bears consideration.

    Even if civil unrest (Not Revolution) were your motivation, A 12-guage shotgun with bird-shot would be my recommendation.

    Shoot it at the rioter's feet. It will bounce off the pavement and create a LOT of pain (but not much injury) to the rioters. I've never even HEARD of a case where an armed homeowner who did this, was ever further attacked by rioters or charged. It's also a standard anti-riot police technique.

    I happen to prefer an AR if it's just me and the wife defending our home against an intruder. But it's not what I would use for an angry mob, which will NEVER darken my door absent a truly ETWAWKI situation.

    Don't let the media choose your guns out of false fear. If you can afford it, a 12-guage is a good investment for a lot of different reasons. Including SHTF.

    Trust me, if you're outside of your home in the middle of a riot and even (I normally hate warning shots, but this would be the exception) fire the gun in the air, the rioters WILL disperse. They're looking for venting and easy targets, not to get shot. It's the nature of rioters. If they were REALLY outraged and determined, they'd be taking shots at the cops at 100 yards and more, not wasting their time with you and your apartment. Mobs are terrifying things. They're irrational. But they GET "I'm gonna get KILLED IN THIS." That's all that is necessary.

    Yet another instance in which the mere presence of firearms prevents crime.
     
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  17. Legs

    Legs NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Personally, with your concerns, I would get a weapon capable of suppressive fire, able to lay the rounds down. A dependable rifle that shoots 223/5.56, has large capacity magazines, would be fairly easy on the shoulder and controllable from the hip for close up defense. An AR or Mini-14 comes to mind. Should have money left from your budget.

    Should you so decide, augment that with a 20 gauge pump shotgun, a handgun of your liking, and loads of training and practice. It's the education that will save your bacon.
     
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  18. DMcGPNW

    DMcGPNW SW WA Member

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    So your immediate concerns may have subsided, but if you did not feel prepared for the looming crisis of the week you are likely not prepared for the unexpected day to day.

    As to HD firearms, citing to your concerns in the op, your thoughts of a 20 guage shotgun I think are on the right track. The shotgun is a very flexible and effective firearm for defense and food gathering. Although the 12ga may be more effective at distance, for HD application I think 20ga is an efficient option that would be more comfortable for you and less imposing for the female shooters in the house. Maybe check out some of the short LOP options like the Mossberg super bantam.

    Ultimately these are the opinions of someone you don't know who in turn doesn't know you so go lay hands on some of these options and see how they handle.
     
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  19. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Mine is an AR carbine.

    Birdshot in an 18" barrel up close is effective, I wouldn't want to be in front of that stuff for very long, that's for sure.

    Depending on the floor composition, covering and whether an apartment has downstairs neighbors, and in general anyway, I'd caution against trying skipfire tactics.

    There is a misconception about that technique, in that people assume that the angle of reflection (out) will be the same as the angle of incidence (in) but it does not work that way in reality.
    The reflected projectiles tend to follow a path more parallel to the reflective surface and do not skip "up"r "out" in the case of skipping along a wall. Also people with messed up feet can still manage to shoot you before they fall over, or do serious harm with clubs, etc.

    In other words, shooting to mostly miss center of mass is a risky defensive proposition and later, crippled people can sue you.
     
  20. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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