Need help / Advice with 218 Mashburn Bee ammo / brass.

Redhotfill · Nov 19, 2023

Well I bought an auction online that advertised 218 bee ammo, like 300 rounds / empties and that 3/4 of it was made from 25-20 brass. I'm not that anal about the head stamp except in things that are super close to each other that could really create lots of confusion. So I had planned on shooting this 25-20 head stamped 218 bee ammo and then resizing it to 25-20 because the wife wants everything correctly head stamped in case I die... and I also have "a few" guns in 25-20 and fiding that headstamped brass is super hard now! So tired of the nagging I gave in. I thought this would be a solution to my headache. NOPE! now I got a new headache. They failed to show the card in the ammo boxes intentionally I think, because its not 218 bee but 218 MASHBURN BEE! UGH! it is either fully fireformed and reloaded MASH bee or has bee mostly resized and loaded for fire forming in a MASH bee chamber. That stuff wont fit in my regular bee chamber so my only solution would be to pull all the bullets and powder and see if it would resize. I'm worried the brass would get over worked and cave or split or split later. The empties that are fully fire formed look like trouble to resize to 25-20 and would later split if they didn't cave in or split as well.

Any advice as to what to do?

bcp · Nov 19, 2023

I think you could resize OK after some experimenting to find the best method. Probably no alternative to pulling bullets. Determine if 218 Bee or 25-20 is the best first step in resizing. Try annealing before or after sizing.

Bruce

VinnieBoomBah · Nov 19, 2023

Maybe pull a few and try fireforming using a filler like Cream Of Wheat and see how that goes?

If your not familiar with the concept here's one on going from 30-30 to 38-55

bcp · Nov 19, 2023

The 218 Mashburn Bee cases won't chamber in either his 218 Bee or his 25-20.

218 Mashburn Bee on left. 25-20 on right.

(photo from https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?401410-Fire-Forming&p=4896958&viewfull=1#post4896958)

218 Bee on left, Mashburn Bee on right.

(photo from https://www.shootersforum.com/threads/martini-218-bee.89896/)

Bruce

VinnieBoomBah · Nov 19, 2023

bcp said:
The 218 Mashburn Bee cases won't chamber in either his 218 Bee or his 25-20.

Well, ain't that a kick in the slats!

Redhotfill · Nov 20, 2023

Maybe these photos will help?

So left to right 25-20 (what I want) case with bullet and powder pulled from ready to fire form and another that I didn't pull bullet from and the one on its side is another ready to fire form load. Those won't fit my Bee but they do go into the 25-20. Wonder if firing those would do anything other than waste powder, a bullet and a primer, my time, and get the gun dirty? I have over 150 of those and it would be nice if I can get those back to 25-20 dimensions or at least fit the chamber of the 25-20 so I could use them.

Added two more to the right side showing fire formed Mashburn Case loaded and another empty. I have about 200 of the fully fire formed loads and empties. I have a feeling those cant be reworked back to 25-20 dimensions.

Any thoughts? I'm all ears.

Redhotfill · Nov 20, 2023

bcp said:
The 218 Mashburn Bee cases won't chamber in either his 218 Bee or his 25-20.

218 Mashburn Bee on left. 25-20 on right.

View attachment 1766254

(photo from https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?401410-Fire-Forming&p=4896958&viewfull=1#post4896958)

218 Bee on left, Mashburn Bee on right.

View attachment 1766257
(photo from https://www.shootersforum.com/threads/martini-218-bee.89896/)

Bruce

Yes exactly they wont fit the Bee gun but they do go into the 25-20 just not sure if I can shoot them back open or if I could just pull the bullets and powder and resize without needing to get the primer out as well. That Mashburn shape reminds me of a Weatherby style cartridge. After seeing those I almost would be interested in converting to Mashburn but don't know who would do the work? Especially with the Nonneman experience I'm having.

P7M13 · Nov 20, 2023

I have done this with ~150 of 375 Ruger, shortening the shoulder by ~0.1" & necking them down to 7mm. Here are things I learned:

Anneal the neck and shoulder to start
Use as little lube as humanly possible.
With your 25-20 die, take the neck expander out of the die.
Start with moving the shoulder. Move extremely slowly.
After only a few degrees of ram travel, drop the ram, wipe any excess lube off the case, rotate the case ~30° and continue.
Repeat 3 & 4 until the shoulder is where it should be
Anneal the neck again
Put the heck expander back in the die
Moving extremely slowly, expand the neck

Do this with a few to see if it works.
If the case bodies collapse on the first few, I'd say fergeddaboudit.
In my experience, the slightest buildup of lube on the shoulder junction is what causes folds in the shoulder.
Glacially slow and smooth is the motion you want
Good luck
Edit to add, if you make it to expanding the necks, and your neck expander is the ball type, it would behoove you to invest in a mandrel type expander for the neck - .218 to 25 is a fair jump

VinnieBoomBah · Nov 20, 2023

Redhotfill said:
Wonder if firing those would do anything other than waste powder, a bullet and a primer, my time, and get the gun dirty?

If it was be I would try at least a couple to see what happens

Redhotfill · Nov 20, 2023

VinnieBoomBah said:
If it was be I would try at least a couple to see what happens

Fair enough I'll drive a few miles down the road and shoot a few and see what happens.

Redhotfill · Nov 20, 2023

P7M13 said:
I have done this with ~150 of 375 Ruger, shortening the shoulder by ~0.1" & necking them down to 7mm. Here are things I learned:

Anneal the neck and shoulder to start

Use as little lube as humanly possible.

With your 25-20 die, take the neck expander out of the die.

Start with moving the shoulder. Move extremely slowly.

After only a few degrees of ram travel, drop the ram, wipe any excess lube off the case, rotate the case ~30° and continue.

Repeat 3 & 4 until the shoulder is where it should be

Anneal the neck again

Put the heck expander back in the die

Moving extremely slowly, expand the neck

Do this with a few to see if it works.
If the case bodies collapse on the first few, I'd say fergeddaboudit.
In my experience, the slightest buildup of lube on the shoulder junction is what causes folds in the shoulder.
Glacially slow and smooth is the motion you want
Good luck
Edit to add, if you make it to expanding the necks, and your neck expander is the ball type, it would behoove you to invest in a mandrel type expander for the neck - .218 to 25 is a fair jump

Thank you!

Redhotfill · Nov 22, 2023

Well shooting the ready to fireform ones in the 25-20 opened it up and those seem to be ready to fireform the opened up to .279 which is larger than the 25-20 virgin brass I have. I don't think I'm going to mess with the ones fireformed already for the Masburn bee. Probably not worth the time, effort and risk of destroying them. So I'm going to sell those.