Mexican leader says U.S. shares blame for casino attack that killed 52

[dmancornell]

The fact that MJ is illegal keeps me from messing with it, so there goes that theory.

And yet more than half the population has used pot at some point in their lives. So much for law deterring anyone at all.

Not to mention pot is entirely harmless, non-addictive and really quite enjoyable. You should try it sometime. FYI, I hold a graduate engineering degree, own a home, hold a nice paying job, and can afford a room full of guns. Somehow the occasional drag didn't turn me into a bum begging on the streets, how's that possible? :huh:

Some strongly disagree that drug use (which necessarily follows drug dealing) is victimless.

Explain to me how existing laws regarding theft, robbery, assault, etc. don't address crimes committed by people under the influence of drugs, be they socially acceptable (alcohol) or not (everything else). This is a classic case of the seen versus unseen fallacy (http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html), where the government does more harm than good because they refuse to acknowledge the unintended consequences of their actions.

 

[gnarl]

Well, if you have a 5 pound box of apples in your trunk, you're good to go.

I stopped mainlining cider years ago.

 

[U201494]

Not to mention pot is entirely harmless, non-addictive and really quite enjoyable. You should try it sometime. FYI, I hold a graduate engineering degree, own a home, hold a nice paying job, and can afford a room full of guns. Somehow the occasional drag didn't turn me into a bum begging on the streets, how's that possible?

BFD. You can say anything you want on the interweb (that's why Al Gore invented it!).

pot is entirely harmless, non-addictive and really quite enjoyable. You should try it sometime.

Oh, and this is pure:bsflag:
Harm and addiction come in many forms and levels. Enjoyable? Some folks think an enama is "really quite enjoyable", I have no desire to experiment with that either.

 

[dmancornell]

BFD. You can say anything you want on the interweb (that's why Al Gore invented it!).

Sure, but since liberty/libertarianism is something I care strongly about, I have little reason to lie about this topic, as lying only harms my argument. Believe what you want. A big part in discrediting drug fearmongers is to prove their stereotypes about drug users are nothing more than absurd caricatures designed to scare little kids and gullible adults.

Harm and addiction come in many forms and levels. Enjoyable? Some folks think an enama is "really quite enjoyable", I have no desire to experiment with that either.

Odd how all the "studies" saying pot is addictive and/or harmful come from government and tobacco lobby shills. How many pot users out there beat their wives, compared to alcoholics (alcohol abuse is tied with domestic violence)? How many people complain about not being able to quit smoking pot, as opposed to highly addictive nicotine?

Just because you have no desire to experiment with something, doesn't make it right to criminalize because you may find it distasteful. Enemas are legal, case in point.

 

[Buddhalux]

MJ kept my grandma alive for well over 30 years after having a pacemaker and taking coumadin for it the rest of her life. MJ gave her an appetite and allowed her to keep the food down. It also took care of her pain so that she didn't need pain pills. She still died at 79 pounds but she would of died decades before that had it not been for MJ.

 

[MarkAd]

That's why all those European countries who decriminalized drugs are being wrecked by crime... oh wait, they're not

Prove your statement.

 

[Misterbill]

How many of you border closers have actually lived or worked on the border? And I don't' mean San Diego, I mean in the "outback" regions of Arizona and NM?

Unless you're going to put tens of thousands of troops or Boarder Patrolmen on the border with shoot-to-kill orders, it's impossible to really close a 1500+ miles land border. And if you DO close it, that leaves another 6000+ mile sea border.

Our insane drug prohibition policies are what's fueling a lot of tghe troubles here and abroad. We have more people in jail than RED CHINA as a result of our drug war. We have destroyed the lives of countless people with the magical marker of FELON over a "crime" that victimized no one, sold no drugs to minors, didn't put a gun in anyone's face, etc. etc. We have also increased violent crime enormously by perpetuating laws against a substance that does some, but not terrible social harm, all in the ideal that the evil drugs are going to make everyone an addict.

How many of you are going to go out and try shooting heroin if it's legal tomorrow? Seriously? Your kids? How about you stop being such crappy parents that your kids think it's ok to experiment with shooting smack? I wouldn't have tried that at 14 or 16, much less now., Why do you sell these kids so short?

We have sold the fourth and fifth amendments down the river on the altar of the drug war, burned the tenth amendment down to the ground over the commerce clause, but you guys who claim to love the constitution and ONE amendment think it's perfectly ok to crap all over the rest because "teh drugs are teh bad evulness!"

We have spent over a trillion dollars on drug enforcement in the last two decades. We have not reduced drug use or increased price AT ALL in that time. More of the same is insanity. Legalize it, regulate it, tax it, let RJ Reynolds and Pfizer make a fortune and put the Crips, MS13 and the cartels out of business in one fell swoop. Your children and grandchildren will thank you.

 

[AMProducts]

You know, I used to have a very laisses faire attitude about drugs myself, I was never a user of drugs, but I firmly believed that people should be able to put whatever they want to into their bodies. If these are things you want to experiment with... great, go ahead, hop on a plane over to amsterdam, get your fix, run your experiments. I have seen plenty of these science projects go horribly horribly wrong, up close and personal. I don't experiment with explosives at the dinner table around my family.

 

[Stomper]

Hmmm victimless... so you think weed is the only harmless drug? What about meth? Should THAT be legalized as well? I mean, after all its THEIR bodies to put into them what they choose (I agree with you to a point), but how many property crimes and crimes of violence have been committed by tweakers who need fast cash to get their next "dime bag" (or whatever they call it these days)?

How many catalytic converters, copper pipes and wires, bronze memorials, and whatnot have been stolen/damaged in the "pursuit of personal choice"? How many tax dollars (read... yours and my money) is spent on "rehab" programs that often take many, many repeat cycles to be successful, or just outright fail? Maybe if SELLING drugs was an automatic death sentence (with the usual access to appeals) is the answer. After all, how can you say "it was an accident I had all this crap on me and was selling"?

And if Europe isn't burning down because THEY are "enlightened" and we're just "dumb Americans", just how do you explain the recent likes of London and "the land of stinky cheese" (France), or Greece, oh yeah didn't they have issues in Holland rather recently too?

Anyway, this thread is getting WAY off topic.

 

[dmancornell]

Prove your statement.

Knock yourself out: Drug Decriminalization in Portugal: Lessons for Creating Fair and Successful Drug Policies | Glenn Greenwald | Cato Institute: White Paper

 

[dmancornell]

Maybe if SELLING drugs was an automatic death sentence (with the usual access to appeals) is the answer. After all, how can you say "it was an accident I had all this crap on me and was selling"?

Yes, let's behave like the Chinese fascists, because you know those guys got the whole liberty thing down pat.

 

[Misterbill]

You know, I used to have a very laisses faire attitude about drugs myself, I was never a user of drugs, but I firmly believed that people should be able to put whatever they want to into their bodies. If these are things you want to experiment with... great, go ahead, hop on a plane over to amsterdam, get your fix, run your experiments. I have seen plenty of these science projects go horribly horribly wrong, up close and personal. I don't experiment with explosives at the dinner table around my family.

I lived in Germany for three years and had a girlfriend who worked and lived in Amsterdam. I have been there many times from 1982-present.

I will take Amsterdam and all its problems in a heartbeat over trashing the 4th, 5th and 8th amendments on a routine daily basis, crime in inner cities that makes the worst day in Amsterdam's history look like nothing and a serious emerging national security issue WRT the cartels, which make their money ONLY because of the prohibition policies of the U.S.

I am not alone:

The WoD has failed. Utterly, completely, horribly. I defy you to post and actual evidence that the trillions spent on the criminal aspects of the WoD has helped our society in any way.

On my side, all I have to do is tell you to read your daily paper. No-Knock warrants, innocents killed in botched raids, Drug testing, kids being searched and treated like criminals (and taught to be good, unquestioning subjects of the growing State), trillions down the tube, more people in prison than Red China, etc, etc, etc.

The demonstrable harm that our prohibition policies have done would have to be balanced by enormously MORE harm than simply legalizing the things and dealing with the consequences thereof. I literally cannot imagine how the outcome of legalization would be worse than the status quo. And as for the crank problem, again, it's sad that people decide to wreck their lives. But in FACT, if every crank head could get their fix legally and cheaply, you'd have very little in the way of fallout compared to the effects of the modern police state we currently live in.

It amazes me that anyone who claims to love the constitution and thinks the 2A is so important, could simply ignore the trashing of the 4th and 5th amendments and be ok with that because after all, "drugs are Baaaad, ummkay?"

 

[U201494]

Sure, but since liberty/libertarianism is something I care strongly about, I have little reason to lie about this topic, as lying only harms my argument. Believe what you want. A big part in discrediting drug fearmongers is to prove their stereotypes about drug users are nothing more than absurd caricatures designed to scare little kids and gullible adults.

I beleive the people of our country decide what is and what is not legal based on facts.
Your BS and over used internet descriptors have not changed that. Go ahead, wrap your lips around your bong and inhale. Beleive what you want, it's your carcass.

Odd how all the "studies" saying pot is addictive and/or harmful come from government and tobacco lobby shills.

Poor lie.

How many pot users out there beat their wives, compared to alcoholics (alcohol abuse is tied with domestic violence)? How many people complain about not being able to quit smoking pot, as opposed to highly addictive nicotine?

Well cool! You make it sound so much better than liquor or tobacco, why don't we just start selling joints and outlaw the other two? With your facts I bet you could convince a Representative or Congressman or even a state Senator to champion your cause!

Just because you have no desire to experiment with something, doesn't make it right to criminalize because you may find it distasteful. Enemas are legal, case in point.

I never stated or implied that enamas should be outlawed. If you outlaw enamas, only outlaws will have enamas.

 

[U201494]

I will take Amsterdam and all its problems in a heartbeat over trashing the 4th, 5th and 8th amendments on a routine daily basis, crime in inner cities that makes the worst day in Amsterdam's history look like nothing and a serious emerging national security issue WRT the cartels, which make their money ONLY because of the prohibition policies of the U.S.
On my side, all I have to do is tell you to read your daily paper. No-Knock warrants, innocents killed in botched raids, Drug testing, kids being searched and treated like criminals (and taught to be good, unquestioning subjects of the growing State), trillions down the tube, more people in prison than Red China, etc, etc, etc.

The demonstrable harm that our prohibition policies have done would have to be balanced by enormously MORE harm than simply legalizing the things and dealing with the consequences thereof. I literally cannot imagine how the outcome of legalization would be worse than the status quo. And as for the crank problem, again, it's sad that people decide to wreck their lives. But in FACT, if every crank head could get their fix legally and cheaply, you'd have very little in the way of fallout compared to the effects of the modern police state we currently live in.

Bad here and better over there?
Tell you what, I will buy your one way ticket to Amersterdam and I am sure I could rally the troops and come up with the cash to cover the cost of moving your shi t too.

 

[dmancornell]

I beleive the people of our country decide what is and what is not legal based on facts.

Setting aside the total lack of facts backing drug prohibition, since when was a numerical majority allowed to violate the Consitutional rights of a minority, or even a single person?

Your BS and over used internet descriptors have not changed that. Go ahead, wrap your lips around your bong and inhale. Beleive what you want, it's your carcass.

Except my actions harm no one, and you are backing a war that costs billions of dollars and thousands of lives. Big difference.

Poor lie.

Is that the best you can come up with? Just follow the money, for example, the recent defeat of Proposition 19 in California. Major donors for the opposition are the police/prison guard unions, mainstream politicians, the chamber of commerce, and the California Beer and Beverage Distributors. Big surprise.

Well cool! You make it sound so much better than liquor or tobacco, why don't we just start selling joints and outlaw the other two? With your facts I bet you could convince a Representative or Congressman or even a state Senator to champion your cause!

Better idea, just abolish all drug laws. All drugs have side effects (duh), the issue at hand is recognizing personal responsibility over those side effects, as opposed to a government establishing random rules over selective drugs based on social acceptance.

 

[revjen45]

"Harm and addiction come in many forms and levels. Enjoyable? Some folks think an enama is "really quite enjoyable", I have no desire to experiment with that either. "

The DEA Cylons aren't locking up Klismos, and the cartels aren't smuggling colonic lavage accoutrement. What does this have to do with the subject at hand?

Calderon has no business telling us what laws we need in the USA. Last I looked, he is not a citizen of this country. We have no reason to care what he thinks about guns, drugs, or anything else.

 

[Misterbill]

Bad here and better over there?
Tell you what, I will buy your one way ticket to Amersterdam and I am sure I could rally the troops and come up with the cash to cover the cost of moving your shi t too.

Nice argument.

I state someone else is addressing a specific problem with demonstrably, provably, factually better results by far.

Your response?

"You must hate the U.S. move!"

In other words you have zero facts and no argument on your side.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

Oh really. Tell ya what. Get caught with 5 pounds of cocaine in your trunk and try selling that idea to the judge.

which has nothing to do with the premise of the article. We have criminalized vice. Now, as a law abiding citizen, I will obey the law, that doesn't mean i agree with the concept that it is ok to force people to follow a set of moral values that othewrs have chosen for them. isn't that what sharia is all about? Yes, that is extreme, but it is the same belief system, "I know what is best for you, do it my way or else."

 

[Father of four]

You know, that's been a the huge problem throughout history.
"I know what is best for you, do it my way or else."
Its a shame really.

Howard

 

[dmancornell]

You know, that's been a the huge problem throughout history.
"I know what is best for you, do it my way or else."
Its a shame really.

Howard

The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.
-- H L Mencken